I can only think of a couple of games where Leeds have played anywhere near the potential of the players they have in the squad. On defence the points conceded is very similar to 2016 so I am not sure the improved defence stands up to scrutiny. In Kallum Watkins you have one of the most outstanding athletes in the game yet he seldom get the opportunity to show his skills its a travesty.

On the final every try came via a kick - Leeds never looked like they had the skills or the set moves to break Cas down. Whilst Eden lost the ball at the last minute the move that led up that was a delight to see.

As I have said before you cannot knock McDermott's record it is second to none - do I really enjoy watching the style of rugby his teams play week in week out - not really its effective but its so dull.

A change of style would be great - maybe you can't have both?

Briscoe's second try wasn't from a kick. Castlefords only try came from a kick. It could be argued that BM saw a weakness in the Cas defence under the high ball which he wanted us to exploit.
You do see a lot more tries from kicks in the modern game though.

It wasn't really conditions that suited well worked tries though was it.

Let's remember back to the start of the season when we wouldn't even kick on the last for apparent fear of conceding a 7 tackle set and were being tackled on the last. Even when we did kick it wasn't deemed that good so to score 3 tries of kicks in a GF (could've been 4 had Watkins grounded his chance) I won't complain.

We played the conditions in the final, that in itself is a joy to watch IMO we did have the skills to break Castleford down, they didn't have the skill to break us down. And you're right evens move was a delight to see, but not in the way you saw it it was a delight to see McGuire save the try from being scored.

Either our attack or defence improved from 2016 - the league position and GF winners rings show that. Our points difference at the end of regular season was -172 in 2016 in 2017 it was +76 and after the super 8s it was +126

Listening to McDs post mactch press conference after the grand final, he talks about how after the cas loss in the third round Gary hetherington was on the phone all weekend saying things need to change and they need to start picking up results and how GH was having to settle the board of directors. (Remember he then gave 4 weeks for a turn around)

McD then said him and Mags had a very difficult conversation the Monday morning.

He said all those conversations were difficult to have and everyone probably got stuff wrong in those conversations. How ever ultimately the result of all those convos was to hold your nerve.

Imagine that pressure he must have been under at that stage. He was told he needed results, and he delivered. 2nd place in the league with only 1 less point than our treble winning season. And then bringing home the grand final as champions.

I truely belive this season was about answering questions and bring home results. Not about playing the most attractive rugby in the league.

I also find it almost laughable how quiet the Doom mongers have been this week.

The performance from Leeds was as good as any final performance apart from 2007 - they stuck to their game plan and delivered. Most neutral commentators have suggest it was worst ever final quality wise, make of that what you will.

The defence improved slightly 100 points over 23 games so a marginal gain on a truly horrific previous year. You cannot compare the Super 8's to the qualifiers in 2016

On the Eden move - I go to games to see great athletes performing to their potential. I am not blinded to a quality move just because Leeds didn't perform it. Everyone is crying out for tries that don't come from kicks - the precision of that move was stunning to see live. If you watch the NRL you can see how much more they work on the precision of these moves and the game is a more attractive spectacle because of it

I make of it that they were all expecting Cas to walk it and got proved wrong.

I agree with you that it was the best GF performance since 2007 - I actually think its my favourite GF win, not for the actual game but the story behind it all.

Yes that Eden no try move was great, McGuire last ditch effort to stop it was better IMHO.

With 2016 the defensive numbers got a real boost towards the end of the regular season when we managed to find a bit of form, get players back, Segeyaro in and back at Kirkstall and drag ourselves up to 9th. The last 7 games we averaged less than 15 points against us, the first 16 games it was almost 30, so maybe more appropriate to say the defence has improved massively from the first half of 2016 when it would crumble.

Wrt points against this season, again just sticking with the opening 23 rounds. Castleford were responsible for nearly a quarter of our points against so whilst we had the well documented Cas problem, against the rest of the league we didn't do too bad overall.

(Points against total 477.....points against vs Cas 118 = 24.7%)

Iv never been the biggest fan of mcdermott,but even i cant argue with his results,he's as good a leader of a group of men as you will find anywhere. His strengths as a coach cant be tought imo,your either an inspirational leader or your not,he is by the bucketload and its served our club fantastically well.

The frustrating thing for me is that his weaknesses as a coach are a lot easier to find and can be compensated for with a good assistant coach,someone Who can put a few set plays and a bit of sructure together for when we get into the opposition 20. Our game is fine,obviously,we'r the champions,but for me our play in the opposition 20 is our biggest weakness. Very rarely do we see ryan hall just having to catch a ball and put it down because he's on the end of a set play thats created an overlap,more often than not he either has to muscle his way through a tackle or outjump someone to score. Im not suggesting reinventing the way we play, just having a few set plays and a bit of sructure to mix in with it.

This isnt an anti brian post or negative post (iv said in another thread that i think the clubs in a great situation now and moving forward) its Just something i see that could help us improve further,I think with the right addition to the backroom staff we could have the best of both worlds everything brian gives us and a little bit of what he dosnt. I honestly think we could take our game to an even higher level.

Yes, I enjoy every season but the latter part of 2017 where we had pretty much a full squad to choose from every week was the best part, strangely enough.

Oh dear, sooner that even I expected.

Leeds also played the some of the weaker teams towards the end of the season so you would expect an improvement IIRC.

After the Hardaker announcement most "experts" were expecting a Leeds win

Please someone, make him stop.

Yep like the eventual CC winners Hull and GF winners Wigan, kept to 15 & 16 points respectively.

After a lucky win against a poor Hull KR side, thrashed in the WCC, it's beginning to look like Brian is fast running out of ideas.

Meh.

It’s a long ol’ season kiddo.

I won’t wet my pants either way at this point.

Leeds have lost one game in a league where Wakefield are currently sit in the top 2 - Saints apart there isn't another top quality side outside of Leeds.

Saints v Leeds final - the two stand out sides in the competition. In Barba Saints have the one genuine superstar in the whole league.

McDermott has had his critics - rightly so - but his record is second to none.

Very early for predictions of doom or glory. Leeds growing injury list will make things tough for us for the next 6 - 8 weeks, we should just expect and accept that. If the team can find a top four finish, then we all know they can do what's needed at the business end of the season. But if the worst happens and we limp on (literally) through the season with out winning anything, I promise, the world will not end.

Losing by narrow margins all too often, just about seeing off a garbage Hull KR side, blowing an 11 point lead against a slightly above average team. I think Brian will come in for some well earned criticism tonight.

New 5 year contract for McDermott
. Let's hope Wigan come knocking

7 years and 236 pages and still no one has corrected that title.

Sack the coach!

They did.

I changed it back.