I cannot believe this thread has got to 15 pages

......and out of the fog emerges sense.

Rubbish isn't it. Mine had over 30.

Tearing it up in the reserve Academy. Got man of the match last weekend. Of course, that is all because of Buderus presence in the first team mind you......................

No one has said that

I've played with and against some players with far greater skill than I.

I remained fat, lazy and [ishi[/it.

At last the truth is out there.

Surely that's through choice


So you don't see any benefit of having successfull experienced players within the squad then??
Should we be ditching Keith then??

You mean someone like Diskin for example?

I do but i also see the benefit of Budrus been around and disko himself has mentioned how he's learning from him.
The why's and wherefore's of his signing are a different debate imo,i think it can only be an advantage to have someone of his calibre around,granted he hasn't hit his absolute best on the paddock and the"did we need him" debate is also out there,but for the likes of Mcshane and young Hood to have a club legend and an international legend around can only be a good thing imo.
I do agree the squad no switch was wrong especially given matts efforts the season before and we are yet to see both fire at their best when in the dual role but while he's here i think the club can/will benefit as long as it doesn't cost us either Mcshane or Disko which i hope and don't think it will.

Tony Smith is an ex half-back (and a pretty successful coach) but he didn't let that stop him bringing in Andrew John's in the off season for some one-on-one mentoring of Richard Myler.

If Buderus isn't mentoring McShane I'd be amazed ..... what a waste that would be.

Did Andrew Johns stifle Myler's development by playing in the 1st team ahead of him?

No. When Myler was being mentored by Johns pre-season he was already a full England International and a SL record signing but at the same time humble enough to admit his eyes were opened for the first time under his tutilage.

If McShane was deemed ready by the Leeds coaching staff last season why when Buderus and Diskin were both unavailable V Wigan at home did they select Jones-Buchanan in the hooking position while McShane played in the curtain raiser?

Why don't you write to them and ask them? We're not mind readers.

I think he may have been injured by then

IIRC, he played in the curtain raiser to the Wigan game. If he was injured I'd be surprised if he played in either game that afternoon.

Why was Myler already a full England International and SL record signing?

Was it because at Salford there was a 30+ Aussie in the team ahead of him, but mentoring him, of course. Or was it because he was playing regularly in Salford's 1st team?

I don't doubt the likes of Johns and Buderus will have lots of valuable information to pass on to young players. be nice if those young players could put these things into practice by getting a game mind you. Johns was at Wire in a very brief coaching consultancy capacity, not as a player. Do you think Myler's career right now would blossom sitting outsode of the team watching Johns play? I've seen Johns play a few times and it hasn't improved me as a scrum half.

sorry I misunderstood what you meant. My bad

Like Peter Fox and Jodie Broughton did at Leeds behind Scott 'no rep selection' Donald, who was not generally considered to be the best in his position of his generation. You appeared happy enough to see the steady antipodean re-signed while the promising youngsters took the option to move on.

If you consider Jones-Bishop (who is more than a year older than McShane) to be in the right place for his career development out on loan this season why do you expect McShane to be learning his trade in the Leeds first team. Aren't they both behind better 1st grade options available to coach McClennan in their chosen positions.

Neither Broughton or Fox were the incumbents, unlike Diskin. Neither had achieved anything in the game, unlike Diskin. Neither were internationals, unlike Diskin. The club signed Donald because there was a question mark about whether the players at the club could fill that role.

They got it wrong with Fox but there have been no indications they have gotten it wrong with Broughton.

Oh, and Donald has been one of the best wingers in this competition and far more than "steady". Unlike his rather more illustrious and unsteady compatriot, Buderus, DOnald has earned his place, under his jersey number and earned our respect in the blue and amber unlike Buderus who appears to have been given it for aceivements earned elsewhere.

It has more to do with what I think McShane would learn in the 1st team than what he might learn watching Buderus. Thank you for bringing up BJB. It illustrates the point perfectly. He is learning by doing, not by watching.

Gareth, do you fancy our Disko?

That's my point also. I've no doubt younger players can pick up the odd pointer or two from training with class players. But in the end there is absolutely no substitute for playing with them or against them.

If Buderus is actively coaching McShane specifically then thats great. It still means squat if the lad never gets a game.

I think Leeds have got it right for some years now in loaning out fringe players to other teams. I'm sure BJB will be a lot better player than if he spent yet another season in the reserves. TBH I'd see no reason in not letting McShane go on loan for this year also.

I was told he was prepared to go out on loan but the club vetoed it add to the fact he's played some of the pre-season at 7 i'd say he's very much in the 1st team plans this year and i'd expect to see more of him than last year unless the club have a change of heart.

I saw him in the pre season games and yes, ok, not super league standards by any stretch but McShane was head and shoulders the best player on the pitch.

Against Hunslet he was simply immense, man of the match by a country mile. The lad must be chomping at the bit to get a shot at the first team which hopefully he is going to get sooner rather than later.

Buderus wasn't signed to replace Diskin, he was signed to allow them a two hooker option which McClennan had requested from the club's CEO.



Not yet. How long was it before it became apparent to you that Leeds had got it wrong with Fox?



Donald has been steady in the same way Francis Cummins used to be steady, IMO. Solid, reliable, good finisher but a bit work shy and I'd much rather give Academy prospects the opportunity to see if they could exceed what he brings. I think Donald may prefer being termed as steady rather than abysmal as he was on here last week.



Donald was given squad number 2 at Leeds before he played a game for the club, without earning a single representative honour in the NRL and having not played 1st grade for several months, after losing his place at Manly. Why hasn't Buderus earned your respect yet after 23 appearances for the club? What's he missing?



When Buderus was signed, McShane had not made it in to the 1st grade for Leeds. McClennan had asked for a second hooker for his seventeen, I presume here that he didn't see McShane as being ready for that responsibility in what he has termed to be the key position in the modern game. As it turned out with the benefit of hindsight McShane requiring a shoulder reconstruction didn't make that call for 2009 any less correct.

If it's a similar situation to Jones-Bishop then why not suggest a similar solution. If McShane's up for it, find him another SL club to cut his teeth with for the rest of this season and see where he stands when the 2011 squad is being constructed?