Not sure why you think next year will be any different

But regardless of getting 2 points more often we should be seeing better performances more consistently, realistically how many in the 17 are going to change in one off season. The biggest concern is the front row, we had 5 fit props of which not much will change next year and they're 'smiths' players, he can't get them performing and they're not living up to their potential.

Not sure what to say as it's often the same issues.

Poor spine,poor or no plan, silly mistakes / penalties,lack of leadership,stupid choices.

Yeah the ref was bad and we do better with a quick ruck but we rarely get that. Every Ruck is a wrestlers,has been since McGuire came to Wigan.

I'm happy we have done enough to avoid relegation but is that the high point now?.

So much rests on next year signings and tbh Austin did himself no favours and resigning Fusi is madness. I get HIA isn't his fault but we can't afford to have another key player playing half a season when we are already carrying Newman and the back up is Olpherts/ Martin to Centre etc.

Huge shopping list for next year, we clearly have no idea who is on that list or how many have put pen to paper.
When we do,that will show the clubs position on many things and put to bed the team A vs Team B discussion.

To be fair our game plan was quite clear, attack round the ruck, try to tire/ get on top of the inexperienced saints packs, and then attack Hurrells edge when we were in good ball positions.

But neither worked due to been out enthused by saints pack and a mixture of good saints push defence and poor Leeds execution in attack, when attacking Hurrells side

Just back from Saints. Lost that game because all over the park we just don't compete hard and smart enough to win. That could be because: A) The players are not good enough, B) The coach is not good enough, C) Both are not good enough. On balance I still learn towards option A, and that's why recruitment for next year is so massively important.

Because I think the younger players will be a year older and hopefully we get some better halfbacks.

I don’t thi k out pack is the issue at all. Imo its the halfbacks.

There was a point where mcdonnel made s break and Hurrell was absolutely gassed on the other side but the execution was terrible. We would have scored to win the game im sure

Option A for me,

Walters was comfortably your best player tonight. The only one that actually troubled Saints. You had a couple who grafted well but didn't really cause any problems but Cam Smith was just plain awful! I praised him a few weeks ago but tonight he stifled absolutely everything to the point your own players were getting exasperated with him. He has skills, without doubt, but seems to want to play with a ball of his own.

Except it was from the front not the side like Asiata. Plus no injury to Bentley!

To the front is probably a more dangerous tackle, you’ve got the potential to go straight through the knee and break his leg

just because someone doesn't suffer injury doesn't make it less of a house tackle

I would agree but what are the club doing about it - other clubs have already announced signings for next season. Why are Leeds always so late in the market?

Or is it that the better players don't want to come to Leeds?

Cam Smith has thought processes that are so slow he wrecks the flow of any move - similar to the impact Dwyer had last season.

I am interested to understand why you hold that view - I don't see any marked improvement in the younger players. I see the opposite. Which young players do you think have made huge progress under this coaching team?

I think the following have actually regressed - Handley, Oldeski, Smith. O'Connor and Johnson have plateaued. Walters and Holroyd have improved but one of them is leaving.

Isn't the view at Leeds to go with Austin and Myler - go figure!!

And yet Myler has failed time and time again at half back , but some at the club it seems just do not see it

Is that the view tho? Smith has spoken about strengthening the spine of the team and we keep getting linked with half backs

Until Leeds sort out the top end of their salary cap they are going nowhere fast.

Sezer, Fusitua, Tetavano, Bentley, Austin, Myler - just not top class players.

Letting Walters go is madness.

This is a complete knee jerk,

Handley has improved since the Agar days, finishes better and good in yardage.

Oledski isn’t hitting the heights of last season, smith wasn’t good last night but he’s often too tackler and has had a lot of good games this season, he was terrible last season under Agar, especially his discipline.

O’Connor has improved loads, not great last night.

Holdroyd Walters and Gannon have improved loads

Given the pack are at full strength and still not able to get over a very weakened St's pack I'd suggest that is a problem.

We are a deeply flawed team led by a deeply flawed coach. Potentially a great player in the making is moving to one of our main rivals. Some of our so called main strike players are aging. Unless things change dramatically we will be in the same position next season. Perhaps we should play for a false dawn trophy with Hull.

How can you say Gannon has improved loads - when did he last play? I mentioned both Holdroyd and Walters - one of which is leaving.

We must agree to differ on O'Connor I think he has reached his level - perhaps why Leeds are being linked with Levi.

Smith might be a tackling machine but that is only half the game the other half he consistently stifles the moves because he is too slow mentally to spot the opportunities

He needs to be protected given his personal life!!