Nor did we replace Big Ali either.
I think the last few games have also shown that maybe Lunt is not the answer.
Get McShane back and play the lad FGS
Also bring back Amor and release Kylie who admittedly does a job when he is on the pitch.
But he is not on the pitch for long which is a problem with the number of interchanges nowadays.
JP needs to pick his games.
Ablett needs to play in the pack so does Sinfield but again he thinks he is stand off.
We need a Briers type half back a centre and an Ali type back rower as new signings.
Burrow or McGuire at SH
JJB, Clarkson and Bailey need to up their game or move on.
Moore and Griffin should be given another year.
I also think Achurch will play prop next year.

What is really needed is a new extra person in the coaching set-up, someone to work on the defence because if you think the defensive structure is bad and gets caught out now when we have plenty of experience in our side, guys who have played in hundreds of games and many finals and seen it all, then what hope do you reckon the defence has if we put together a much younger and less experienced pack? Sure they'll have youthful enthusiasm and energy but you've got to still have great team structures in place especially in your own 20m to keep the oppostion out and if the current lot are struggling with it then i don't see how less experienced guys will manage it.

As for some individuals,
Peacock - some said we should make this his final year but i've always thought he should still be here in 2013. We should follow the route Warrington did with Morley though and have him starting on the bench a bit more next season. Given the enormity of a CC Final he was able to roll back the years but on a weekly basis can't be your number 1 prop all the time.
Bailey - copping a lot of flak for his CC performance but i think this season he has played quite well. He pretty much got dropped into the Loose Forward position out of the blue when Ablett had to revert to centre and Clarkson underperformed but has had some good games there. I've been fine with him selected there these last few months but for the 2013 season i think Ward will be ready to start games there, so reverting back to prop/possibly 2nd Row on the cards.
JJB - Maybe like Peacock, time for him to be starting games on the bench a bit more in 2013. Depends on two things really, how well Achurch does, and if Ablett is returned back to the forwards with Keinhorst gettingt the 4 shirt.
Lunt - is he worth signing? If we had no one else then yes, but he's solid usually with the good game here and there and we have McShane and Hood in the wings.
Clarkson - Still worth holding onto for 1 more year unlike Hauraki to see if this year's hoped improvement comes in 2013.
Moore - gave a good account of himself when given a chance but can't see the point in keeping him ahead of giving Singleton the 4th bench spot on them occasions instead.

For 2013,
Outs - Hauraki, Webb, Moore, Lunt........Clarkson (loaned to another SL club if possible)
Ins/Promoted - Someone to work on the defence, Achurch, Singleton, Hood, McShane, Amor or a new STARTING prop, not a 3rd or 4th choice one (if so then possibly Kirke to leave too).

We badly need a game breaking forward.something most have suspected for a while,but after saturday needs to be made a priority.we will not progress with our current crop.as soon as i saw our bench compared to wires on saturday i feared for us.no impact whatsoever.

Generally I agree with your suggestions. I agree that Sinfield should revert to loose-forward and Stevie Ward in the second row. I think a new quality half-back with a good kicking game and who can direct play would be an advantage and Danny at scrum-half. I would have Rob coming of the bench in the hooking role. The other signing would be a quality starting prop if Kylie and Jamie are going to start more often from the bench. I don't think it needs a revolution but we need to do something to keep us as one of the top 3/4 sides in SL. I would think that with only a few weeks to go to the end of the season, Gary H has already put some plans together for next year.

Don't think we are going to see masses of new signings, personally wouldn't be supprised if alchurch is the only incoming, maybe Amor, but personally think he will be very tempted to stay where he is

What plans are those rhino 2009?

What I said was "I would think with only a few weeks to go to the end of the season..... that GH has put some plans together for 2013". I don't know the details but on separate occaisons both GH and BMcD have referred to planning for next year. For commmercial reasons with next years season tickets going on sale soon then they need to fill us with optimism again!

It'll be interesting to see how he now views the teams/squads efforts since his public out-burst i hope he sticks to his word.!

I agree that we are more than likely to stick with the majority of current squad as has been the way for last few seasons.it is getting worrying now though as we are losing kylie and jp very soon and we still rely very heavily on them.the rest just dont seem to be able to make the step up to the required level.

Still,i spent many years following leeds home and away when we couldnt even get close to finals or titles so a few years of rebuilding after many years of great success i can live with!

Is there many players out there ooc/availble relatively cheaply that would better our side? (That would realisticly come?)

No is the short answer.

If we were after a centre and Bradford go belly up we could do worse the lula.

I personally cannot see there be too much action for us in the transfer market if any

I had this discussion with someone on our coach on the way home/in the club on Saturday. There isn't anyone.

If we replaced the players listed in this thread with what is available then we'll have this thread repeated after the next major defeat.

Mark O'Meley from Hull FC, and Scott Taylor from Hull KR are both wantaways. We also have the option on Amor, who's got better stats than either of them. Personally I'd be very happy with Taylor, Amor & Achurch as arrivals in place of Hauraki, Clarkson & Moore, with Clarkson going on loan to London or Wakefield.

That'd give us props of Peacock, Leuluai, Griffin, Bailey, Amor & Taylor, and second rows of Jones-Buchanan, Ablett, Delaney, Achurch & Kirke (assuming we also bring in a centre). Personally I'd send Keinhorst, Clarkson, Singleton, Smith, Chisholm, Agoro & Hood on loan to a lower SL club (London/Wakefield/Widnes/Salford), and play Ablett in the centres.

I reckon/hope we'll see something like this next year:

1. Hardaker
2. Jones-Bishop
3. Watkins
4. Ablett
5. Hall
6. McGuire
7. Burrow
8. Leuluai
9. McShane
10. Peacock
11. Jones-Buchanan
12. Delaney
13. Sinfield
14. Achurch
15. Amor
16. Bailey
17. Kirke
18. Taylor
19. Ward
20. Griffin

If we're to avoid the 30,40,50 point maulings from the bigger teams we need to strengthen throughout the team. If we are happy to tag along behind the big four a couple of signings will suffice. A big nasty prop has got to be a priority and some line breakers with power from the second row. Despite SirKevs heroics we need a genuine ball handling half back that attacks the line and can pin teams back with a naturally clever kicking game. Sinny has filled in admirably but it's not his natural game. Briers kicks forced numerous dropouts that ultimately killed us on Saturday and whilever the rules reward kicks into the ingoal area we could do with a specialist. Tim Smith has been phenonominal at Wakey and his little kicks resulted in 4 or 5 tries for Wakey in their recent game at KR. We also need a specialist centre rather than someone who can "just" play there. I think Leeds have underestimated how much the other "big" teams would strengthen and improve, they have and we must follow suit.

Not really, anyone left from SL OOC would at best be just an addition and not an improvement. Not sure about Australia but doubt it, anybody really good would require a huge chunk of cap space, otherwise you're looking at a Achurch kind of signing that you hope follows in the footsteps of Donald, Leuluai and Delaney of not being big names over there but perform well over here.
Then you have the Bradford situation. But apart from Bateman (which i can't see happening as others will offer much more in wages than we will) then again it's a case of more of the same rather than an improvement. Only way i can see an improvement is if we spend a transfer fee on someone and can't see that happening either.

also, Manase Manuokafoa is OOC from Bradford end of this season. 1913 metres from 254 carries at 7.5 m/carry and 439 tackles with only 10 misses. Certainly a cut above what we have in the forwards atm. Achurch, Amor, Taylor & Manukafoa in would certainly spice the pack up a bit.

So potential additions:

Scott Taylor, Hull KR, England
Kyle Amor, Wakefield, England
Manese Manuokafoa, Bradford, Tonga
Mitch Achurch, Paramatta, Australia.

I think that Achurch for Hauraki, Taylor for Moore, Amor for Clarkson and Manuokafoa for Ablett (in turn, for Webb) is an improvement up front.

One last option is to try find a young gem from the Championship such as Zak Hardaker or Chris Hill but can't say i'm too well clued up on that division so don't know if any are there ATM. The problem with this option is that they probably wouldn't be ready for first team action straight away thus you might not see the benefits until 2014.

Alot of people seem to think Amor is nailed on to return.

And he might very well be at headingley next year but I personally am not too sure.

He gets proper playing time at wakey, something we never offered him, and if I were Amor I doubt he will get the same game time at Leeds as he does at wakey. Money not sure but I am sure he will be further up the pecking order at wakey. He may also like wakey and want to stay seems like quite a tight nit group

Russell Packer from the Warriors please.... OOC this year!

The big problem is a lot of clubs need to recruit new players for next season,Hull are looking for several players also HKR. Also due to the new cap in Australia that movement of players has been reduced. The clubs with a strong academy should flourish , do we still have scouts ? If so we need to be scouring the amateur game nationwide . With regards to the salary cap,I keep hearing rumours about certain clubs creative accountancy in beating the cap.

If there is not much you can do about the squad and you've left it a little late to be entering the player market for next season what can you do to improve the existing players and to improve structures in attack and defence?

Answers on a postcard to Gary Hetherington but hope it isn't intercepted by a member of the coaching staff.

At least after the weekend we might find out if McDermott is smart enough to catch a cold.

Thank god he didn't do a Steve McClaren though and stand under a brolly when it started chucking down.

Gary said he was wondering if this team had run it's course, well we might find out between now and the end of the season. To be honest, I don't think we need major work, but we do need to start making changes. Amor must come back and we need a strong pacy second rower.

I remember some London fans saying that McDermott will fill the team with hard working players regardless of their quality. Well the one thing you cannot say about this team is that it doesn't work hard...

I was also pleased he did not run for cover,I bet Steve McLaren rues the day he put that brolley up. Anyway Brian Mac being an ex royal marine wil have encountered far worst conditions than sat afternoon .

I don't see us (or anyone) being able to sign a mass of new players.

Even without any changes to the makeup of the squad, I think there are some changes that have to be made to how they are used.

JP has to suck it up and admit he's no longer a long-minute prop. He can still start, but needs to be taken off pretty quickly. Given that Leuluai is the same, one of them will need to move to the bench, otherwise you'd have to replace both starting props within 15 minutes.

The coach needs to work out the best way to use Sinfield, McGuire, Burrow, Ward and the hooker (I thought Lunt looked average at Wembley and TBH would rather go with McShane and Hood). This is particularly the case if Hardaker is not going to be involved in making plays a la Webb. Some hard decisions need to be made here - we again seem to have too many chiefs, not enough Indians and even then look clueless at times.

Perhaps the most ironic thing about the weekend is that Tony Smith was lambasted for being unable to coach an England team against Australia, and yet has turned the one area he identified in defence as a real problem - second man plays with dummy runners - into a massive strength for Wire. Watching Wire score those second half tries really was akin to watching Australia take England apart out wide.