I wouldn't hold out too much hope for Jones-Bishop. The way he's been handled by Leeds they appear to have some pretty deep reservations and unfortunately they are looking well founded this season, likewise for McShane.

Who's next off the conveyor belt?

Hate to disappoint you, but no he shouldn't.

When he looked up, Leeds had two markers at the play the ball. One of those has a duty to watch the short side when it's that close to the touchline. With so little space to the left of the play the ball there was absolutely no need for Hall to stand out on that wing marking nobody.

Subsequent to getting set at marker, Webb then decided he really didn't want to be there leaving the first marker (Buderus?) deep in the brown stuff when he went right.

You can't expect Hall to be able to read Webb's mind. Having made his decision to go to marker, Webb should have stayed there at least until the ball had cleared the ruck before setting off infield.

Oh, and if Lee Smith is coming in anywhere it should be on the right wing to replace the incumbent, who is showing a complete lack of form and enthusiasm IMO.

Hate to dissapoint you but completely dissagree. Hall should be on the wing. It is the other players job to fill in at the play the ball. Wing was where he should have been.



Completely agree. It was like pulling your hair out on Friday night. The lack of enthusiasm, commitment and bottle, form that wing was frightening.

If he stays on his wing, with two men in at marker, who is he marking? He becomes a wasted body in the defensive line, which at the time was in a scramble.

With two markers there if Buderus signals he's going right and Webb holds his ground there is nowhere for Gleeson to go. If he picks up and goes blind, Webb nails him. He's forced to pass it to the open side where Hall is.

The issue was Webb's sudden change of mind which left Buderus stranded and Hall with no time to react and replace him.

Neither Webb or Hall should have been at Marker. Senior should have been there, but was doing his usual walking around in cloud cuckoo land.

Webb should have been towards the centre of the field, and Hall should have been on his wing. Had Hall gone on his wing, it would not have mattered had we only had one marker, as Gleeson would have not gone down that side.

You're right in that Webb shouldn't have been there, but IIRC wasn't he involved in the preceding tackle?

If he was going to disappear from marker, he has a responsibility to get someone else in there instead by communicating with his team-mates. Instead, he set himself at marker then changed his mind leaving the rest of the players around him no time to adjust.

Hall made a call that the dummy half was covered because there were two markers there. When he turned around again, one of those markers was hurtling towards him preventing him from getting in there if he had tried.

It was a knock on by Richards anyway.

Goulding but point taken.

For me - Hall stands left of the PTB. Marker then has the availability to go right, Webb goes back in-field and we're pretty much covered.

I'd like to clarify something about the Gleeson try that appears to have been missed by most posters and may put the discussion to bed. Gotcha appears to have missed it in light of his criticism of Hall's positioning as a winger.

In the build up to that try Webb was on the wing running off a knock. Hall was playing full back. Therefore Gotcha's criticism of Hall not being where a winger should be is mis-directed.

For some reason, possibly instinct, at the play the ball Webb rushes infield to resume at full back, blocking Hall along the way.

The try was entirely the fault of Webb and Hall was entirely blameless. I repeat, Hall was full back that defensive set and Webb was winger. Webb then vacated his wing and got in Hall's way in the process.

If that is the case, you are indeed correct that I missed it.

I didn't see that, and IMO it was the wingers job to be on the wing. But if what you say is true and both players had switched position then indeed it wasn't Halls fault.

But shouldn't the FB be that bit further in field then?

I think you will find it was a loose carry by Goulding and not a knock on, will you be having a pint of stones with your comment

100% Webbs fault. At the time he swaps sides he goes from marking no one with about 3 yards between the PTB and the touchline.

Webb was involved in the tackle, stood at marker then left. Regardless of who was at wing and who at fullback.

The risk of not having a fullback behind the line to sweep up a kick is minimal compared to not having two markers in, especially so close to the line

If the fullback has made a tackle and is at marker, you would usually want your winger dropping to fullback until the fullback can get out of the line. If what Gareth says was correct, it's a moot point. Even if not though, with the two players who made the tackle at marker, Hall was right to head in field. Once you're at marker, you can't just wander off, unless someone else comes in to the spot, such as another defender getting up off the tackle.

It was shag. Easy to miss but I'd been watching Webb on the wing to see how serious his knock was. I just think his instinct took over and he sprinted away leaving nobody on the wing.

The frustrating thing about this is that market defence is the easiest aspect of defensive structure. The principle is that the markers are supposed to be one behind the other, in which case the man at the front always goes left and the man at the back always goes right. The only time this doesn't apply is when the PTB is right on the touchline (closer than Friday) and then the both go to the open side.

How hard is it to get that right?

Never heard that system before

Haha I'd love to watch the first marker go left everytime and the second one go right. There'd be an interesting mix of players defending in the middle by the end of a set.

The Gleeson try was from a lack of communication and nothing more. It was Wigan's last tackle and Webb (and Hall) both thought we needed a fullback desperately. Hall had already filled that position so if we absolutely have to blame someone it was Webb's fault for not looking around. However we'd just scrambled back 20 yards to prevent a try beforehand, there was hardly any time to communicate. Well done to Gleeson for picking up on it.

Best comment on the thread so far. I know I've apportioned blame to Webb (but I did was he was acting upon instinct) but you're right. Why should we apportion any blame. Why can't we just appreciate a piece of clever play by a very savvy RL pro from the opposition?

Cos every try Leeds let in is down to poor defence not quality opposition?

....and the dummy half goes straight down the middle.

Batley Rhino, he's hardly Jack Gibson it would appear.

It was a good piece of play by Gleeson, but poor play from us.