Coming up next week, in another explosive episode of 'Leeds Rhinos - The season gone rottten' you will NOT BELIEVE what Mcdermott says to one of his players after another lackluster training session. Club Dictator Gary Hetherington attempts to bring in some fresh legs, but get's more than he bargained for. Will one single, disastrous decision mean the end? And finally the truth behind the infamous ''pie incident'' exposed. With exclusive never before seen interviews.

All on next week in another hard hitting episode you DO NOT want to miss.

That sounds so much like an Ant & Dec comment

Negative thought is a menace and should be kept well away from creative people everywhere. I do hope the players don't read the terrible stuff posted on theses forums but I suspect some of them do. Some of the comments on here have been calling for chants of sack the coach etc and booing and if this sort of negative thinking is taken onto the terraces then there could well be a negative impact




I have consistently been fully behind our side in previous times of adversity and have posted positive comment specifically on all three players you name. But unlike some of the more sycophantic hero worship of certain players displayed on this forum I have had on occasion good reason to balance the rhetoric by pointing out a few basic flaws in each players game which have been proven to be correct observations. Which of my comments do you disagree with on each player?

I don't have an issue with McDermott staying provided his role at the club is changed and a serious assistant/s are appointed who can challenge his dogma.

Experienced players are making errors because the game plan of the coach isn't working so they are forcing the game. The defence isn't working again because the structures implemented by the coach don't work. Having a centre defending next to a prop is madness and you will not find another centre defending as far in field as Watkins at any of the top teams in SL.

I am not suggesting McDermott isn't working on the training field - what I am suggesting is whatever he is coaching isn't working - even you have to admit, least points scored, most points conceded and bottom of the league is tangible evidence something isn't working.

I take your point about things outside of his control but I ask you again - given all the stuff out of his control do you think the current position is as good as McDermott could have achieved?

We pay good money to watch the team we expect a level of performance that reflects the make up of the team - not winning but a performance. You expect all fans to cheer the team off and not criticise when they have got beat by 50 points - are you for real?

Under Murray Sinfield played 24 times so I would suggest your Murray didn't pick Sinfield is inaccurate - so we can discount the rest of the paragraph as nonsense.

Baldwinson made his debut in 2013 so if he was good enough then why isn't he good enough now? Has he regressed so far in the Leeds system?

A measured and fair assessment Sal IMO.....but you must know by now Juan (sorry for not asking Mr.Cornetto) will never concede an inch. We all know there will be a lengthy and tedious point by point rebuttal. Bring it on Juan

zzzzzzz. At least Printer only sometimes likes to play devil's advocate

....Juan is just the permanent full time devil's sophist

So have I - my eyes tell me that the team is not being coached well (structures, motivation, tactics, use of subs)



I am



You are more than entitled to your opinion. I happen to disagree with it. You obviously have a problem with Hardaker, but he was the best player in SL last year (voted by his peers). The following have been in equally poor form to that of Hardaker: Cuthbertson, Singleton, Ablett, Garbutt (early season - last 2 or 3 games good form), Hall, Sutcliffe, McGuire and Watkins. We don't appear to see the same vehemence of negative opinion about any of those established players.



Proven in what way?



Your consistent fallback argument. And yet, I have been consistent in pressing you to explain why it is that we appear to have no: 6th tackle options near the opponents' line
Structures in defense (at least no improvement on those structures) - no evidence that they have been instructed how best to line up in defense to try & plug the same gaps that appear week after week
Structures in attack (few lines of runners off the ball carrier creating hesitancy & doubt in the opposition line)
Poor use of substitutes (although this is less a priority this year from previous)
In short, not one crumb of evidence that problems have been worked on & sorted so that they become a non-problem.

Of course, you could be correct & BMD could have sorted all of these out, but all the players EVERY SINGLE GAME just forget what to do.



I agree, but to replace those two adequately just ain't going to happen if you agree Thurston, Cronk etc etc are not available to us. Which leads to another consistent gripe. Is BMD only capable of getting his team to compete if he has SL's best ever captain & organiser & SL's best ever prop & England captain? Welcome to the real world Mr McDermott




I don't know - I do not know what the budget is for coach, or who is available. But as others have said, coaches generally have a shelf life.



I would turn that around & say BMD has put us at real risk of relegation



What?
Reporter: "So **** (insert player's name here), what are you all doing to try & get yourselves out of the current predicament?"
****: "Well Brian, not a lot really. BMD is just going through the motions & we couldn't give a flying ****"



Very nice, but YOU said that we should all get behind BMD & the team. So your part in this is a few strokes of the keyboard from far away in the forlorn hope that one or more of the team may read these pages.

Oops, got me there. Teach me to post after an afternoon drink!

The point remains, it was written tongue in cheek (unless you believe I think there is an ingenious plan)

Do you not see the dichotomy & hypocrisy of the above?

I said Murray didnt pick Sinfield often not never.

In Murray's second season Sinfield played 21 times I would say that is pretty often wouldn't you - so your last paragraph of your previous post is indeed nonsense. How you can compare that to the treatment Baldwinson has received from McDermott defies any logic - but then so much posted on this thread does too.

The point i was making Sal was a lot of young players are drip fed quite rightly into the squad. I used Sinfield as an example as he is our most successful academy product. I had hoped you wouldnt take it as literally as you clearly have.

It was said McD has been spiteful to Baldwinson which there is no evidence of. He just doesnt deem him ready for Leeds at this stage of young career. As we all know prop is a very different position for a youngster than a winger for example.

Prop in fact is one position we havent had many injuries at. Whether you or I think Baldwinson is ready its McD's decision to make based on what he sees every day at training. If he chooses not to pick him thats not being spiteful in any way and its a ridiculous term to use.

Was he being spiteful when he dropped Singo earlier in the year? Or was he making a decision that he thought was best for the team at that time?

Im not a McD fan or hater i just objected to the term spiteful being used as it implies McD is deliberately making harmful decisions which i dont believe anyone at the club is doing. I firmly believe the people running the team and club are doing everything to turn this around.

McD and Baldwinson don't get along
That's why he is not getting picked!!!!

And the evidence of them not getting on is????

Baldwinson is in the full time squad and is playing regularly in the championship at Fev. For such a young prop I would say McD and the club have put him in a very fortunate position.

Baldwinson is a promising prospect but is he physically and mentally ready to face the likes of Chris Hill, Alex Walmsley, Grant Millington, Liam Watts, Ben Flower, Eorl Crabtree, David Taylor etc on a weekly basis? Hes still a pup and is 2 years of being ready for the demands of SL in my opinion. Prop is a tough position to play for anyone never mind a young lad like Baldwinson.

We? I neither know nor care why England RU failed to emerge from the group stage of their home World Cup but Eddie Jones (whoever he is) seemed to suggest it having something to do with employing a rookie coach - that would be Lancaster and he was your choice. Still sticking with that call even though by your terms of references 'you were wrong'?



No we haven't, only Ward has been absent throughout. Whichever players you have in your better half have all played at various points of the season and at no point yet have Leeds won away from Headingley (only won three there also) or won consecutive games irrespective of players available. At one point it was said (not by you that I recall) that with McGuire, Hardaker and Cuthbertson Leeds win the game easily - yet they returned and the results got even worse.





The comparison I made was quite clearly between league placing 2015 with McDermott, Sinfield and Peacock and league placing 2016 with McDermott without the influence of Sinfield and Peacock.

Posters argue that this period could be permanently damaging to the young players......then complain when another young player isn't picked.

Complain when players are asked to play other positions (Achurch to prop for example) then complain when Baldwinson isn't picked for 2nd row.

Classic SouthStander

Maybe with a number of young inexperienced players already in the 17, McDermott didn't fancy throwing another one in there if his other props were fit which by an large they have been. Not every young player will get their chances as quickly as others. If we'd had a number of props injured but our back line stayed fit or first choice HB's then it could be Handley, Golding or Lilley sitting on watching Baldwinson getting weekly games whilst they feature for Featherstone. Handley's been fortunate that Briscoe has had an injury hit 18 months.

Jamie Acton..

Are you saying Jamie Acton is at the same level as Dave Taylor, Alex Walmsley and Chris Hill???

And Grant Millington

The point I was trying to make is that whilst the likes of Singleton and Mullally are fit their performance levels have been abysmal. So why not try an alternative, its not as if the current selection policy is yielding wins.

Singleton and Mullally are nowhere near that level - how is Baldwinson supposed to get to that level if he never gets an opportunity to mix it with these guys?

He is the one player in the squad who hasn't been given chance of a run in the side. He has been in the squad for 2 years since his return from NZ during which he has shown some ability against fully developed players. He has played one game, show me an example of any other player in the squad who has been treated in this way.

Given where Leeds are I would want to be exploring every option to improve matters - what has McDermott got to lose as I said before its not as if his current methods are yielding wins.

You don't have any evidence to suggest this is anything but a spiteful McDermott issue - common sense suggests there is more to it than he is not ready.

INOUT

He doesnt get a game because McD doesnt think hes ready after seeing him in training every day and play for Fev. Where is the evidence that it is spiteful???? Why would he be spiteful??

He isnt the best prop at Fev at the moment young Olmondroyd is so how can he be good enough for Leeds at this stage of his young career???

Mullally hasn't been abysmal, steady but not abysmal. Singleton has had a couple of poor months but he's still got more experience than Baldwinson. As I said perhaps in a team with a number of inexperienced lads playing in it then he didn't want to throw another inexperienced lad in.

Perhaps if he waited a couple more weeks instead of alledgely asking for his release then maybe he'd have played the last couple of games. People are making it sound like the longest wait ever, it was about 13 games in reality.

But he is quite happy to throw in Sam Hallas - who showed if you give some of these youngsters a chance they may surprise you? As I said previously they are losing games so what have they got to lose by giving him a run? They will lose by more?

Baldwinson is probably like Amor needs a change of coach to kick on. Only time will tell

On Mullally virtually every game I see a try is scored through a hole where he should have been - Friday night was no different