Tompkins is another good one it never fails over thurr

The town where the Urdu centre is beset by locals wanting haircuts?

Stats can be very misleading, but coaches and fans seem to base more and more on them. I based my original post on how I viewed the match, and the stats back up that Kylie made great yards per carry, at a time when we were well under the pump. JP and Cuthbertson seemed to struggle going forward, and missed more tackles than would be normally acceptable. Having said that, no two tackles are the same and when forwards get exposed in broken space missed tackles are likely to happen, more so than when a strong defensive line is being maintained. Kylie officially missed a high percentage of tackles, but I don't remember him just slipping off any with poor technique or through lazy play. Defensively we were a shambles in the first half, and the stats don't tell you when a player has been so bad he didn't even get near enough to tackle, that's why I don't go big on the stats.

I'd say the 64! missed tackles by HKR was a pretty telling stat. We're unlikely to enjoy that kind of largesse in many more games.

I did

I thought you and Mr Murdock did a sterling job mate although you did a bit disgruntled when Mags scored and more down beat when the Rhinos finally sealed it are you a closet Robin?
Fwiw Ward was mentioned plenty of times as was Mags ,Watkins ,Briscoe and JP along with glowing reports for Campese and Kelly!

Indeed. Widnes next, and we saw their fighting qualities last week. Plus, they'll have had an 8 day turn around, to our 5. We don't want to hit the last quarter of the game behind.

True, every single player in their 17 missed at least 1 tackle or more. Think the game was a perfect example of how the season could go for HKR, involved in a lot of shootouts with very few low scoring contests. I think when some of the other bigger teams go there HKR will managed to put some points past them too, just a question of whether their defence can make it count.....I reckon they'll get it right one time and claim the scalp of one of Saints, Wigan or Wire at their ground this year.

The tackle attempt by the KR full back for Briscoe's first try was the worst I've seen from a fullback in that position in a long time. Some of the defence from both teams for tries was very poor.

Think Aaron Murphy for Hudds vs Hull tops it for rubbish FB play for his effort for Shaul's 2nd try. I've seen ships turn and move quicker, made Paul Wellens look like Usain Bolt at FB.

You say the stats back up exactly what you say from viewing the match?

Your distinctly average Mags who you reckon didn't have a good game was top try scorer, top tackle buster, top carrier, top for clean breaks equal top for attacking kicks and 2nd best for try assists. Nice back up stats!

Also nice to see you quoting lots of "per carry" stats

Yes I do say it. If you actually understood how to use stats, you wouldn't make such comments. Considering he is one of only two players who kick the ball, of course he would be up there on attacking kicks. Considering he touches the ball more than anyone else from his position, of course you would expect the sort of other starts that show. The distinctly average George Williams in the wigan game other day made 5 tackle busts and 2 attacking kicks. I see you missed off the missed tackles of course which is more important than some of the other stats.

But let me balance out, as my original post actually said credit it him for the decisive plays though, which meant the breaks and try assists. Also stating he was better than his half back partner.

Take a crash course in how to interpret stats along with watching, you really need it.

Prepare to be amazed he will be in the top 5 - a complete waste of salary cap spend.

I see a massive side step to this from Herr Gutenberg!!

I doubt it - the lad's from Cas - still hunting Mammoth there.

Whilst Campese pulled the strings for Hull KR in attack..Stevie Ward won't have an easier opponent to run through all year. Windmill.

Not really but couldn't be bothered. Like just mentioned, McGuire's stats look good but the player he's previously downplayed is dismissed as not as good as it sounds and one he's been praising all pre-season is "excellent". I'd have thought as a McGuire fan that you wouldn't like that. And it's not even a case of me saying Ward was poor or rubbish, he's probably did have a good game....but nothing about the performance from the team on Sunday screamed "excellent" as a usable word. His use of stats is selective too. Nearly half of Ward's metres came from one break in which he fluffed the chance to pass at the end to Briscoe who could've scored. Fortunately he was awarded a penalty from overzealous HKR defending but I saw Ward do the same thing vs Hunslet where he made the break and just had to slip the ball inside but decided to take on the FB and got tackled into touch.....hopefully this doesn't become a reoccurring theme.

So you think a player who GH will have known when he signed him faced an uphill task to dislodge any of JJB, Ablett or Delaney from the backrow will have been offered more money than Sinfield, Peacock, McGuire, Burrow, JJB, Ablett, Hall, Watkins, Briscoe (who apparently wasn't cheap) to name but a few.

The older players like Sinfield, Peacock, McGuire etc will have accepted less money for extended contracts and a testimonial.

Watkins is still on the way up and his next contract will be the big one so that leaves Ablett, Hall and Briscoe. I am on the understanding that Achurch is on a sizable contract one of the largest in the squad. That may be true it may not but that is what I have heard from more than one reliable source.

Even if Sinfield, Peacock and co. have accepted less money (which I don't think is certain btw) they'll still be the top guys on the money ladder.

Watkins only signed a new 5 year deal back in October, he's been part of the starting 13 for 4 years now and an England player with plenty of offer clubs sniffing around. If you think we've managed to keep him using less money than it took to sign an Aussie no-name who seemed destined for the bench at best then I think you need to have a word with your sources.

If I had a pound for everytime I've heard "a reliable source told me" then I'd be a millionaire. We'd have also signed Gareth Ellis back, and BJB and Hardaker would be playing for Wire and Wigan respectively now. Even though only a couple of people will truly know what everyone is on at the club it's nice to know they're quite happy to pass it on to others who then pass it on to their mates.

Instead of rumours and sources, perhaps use common sense and remember the guy running things in Hethrington and remember he isn't exactly known for throwing money around. Like you said, Watkins will have had to wait for his big deal (like Hall and Ablett will have done previously)......the notion that he offered that to Achurch who had some injury hit uninspiring years in the NRL with very few first team games is fanciful at best. Sometimes sources really shouldn't be believed.

You're not doing too well on this one.

I was actually wrong, I over estimated you, you are not man enough. Pretty poor excuse that.

For the fourth time now of repeating, I said the right hand side and named the three players, were excellent, and said the left were not so good.

You in your wisdom, decided as you had not heard Ward's name mentioned by the summariser, that he couldn't have had a good game, and infact I was just bulling him up.

I challenged you on what a summariser would mention, and what about defence and dummy runs. You couldn't answer it and let it go. The stats show he was the teams top tackler, there is no stat that shows dummy runs or positioning in defence to ensure the opposition move away. Yet here you are trying to backstep by naming another player.

So lets remind ourselves what I said about McGuire. That he was distinctly average, credit for coming up with the decisive plays (which he did), but took too many wrong options and missed tackles. However, he was better than his half back partner. From the stats it was chosen to ignore the four missed tackles, but concentrate on try assists. Where is the stats that show someone taking the wrong option? there isn't one, and exactly why stats should only be used in conjunction with actually watching the game. Something listening to the radio can not give you.

The fact you can't admit you were wrong and too hasty to pick at a post where they were actually at the game, tells us more about you.

We will have to agree to disagree - I think your logic flawed regarding the older players and their earning power. I am only repeating what I have heard - I don't know for certain and neither do you, but if Gould's comments are anything to go by I would suspect he hasn't come for peanuts.

Leeds and all the SL clubs have a salary cap of £x per year (I have not been able to find the figure, but sure some of you will tell me). What particularly does it matter how high up Achurch is on that list? The club will have decided how much to give to eah player, out of the maximum they can give. If the club have decided to give Achurch a bigger salary than Ryan Hall or JP, then presumably the likes of Ryan Hall and JP would go if they were unhappy with their portion. After knowing what the salary cap total is, anything after that is pure speculation. Those with sources, even if you asked the players themselves, it doesn't necessarily mean they will be telling the truth, does it?

If I am Ryan Hall, and Achurch is actually on 3 times more than me, I am not going to admit that to some bloke I know who supports the team, am I? I am going to muddle the figures so that I look like I am paid more than a fringe-player, as I feel I should be.

Really?46 apps too .I know he's had injuries , but I am slightly amazed

Never mind ageing props and how are we going to replace the golden trio. I think the most worrying thing for the club is that someone quite high up keeps telling every Tom, Dick and Harry he knows all the going ons at the club like how much players are earning, whose negotating a new deal, who we are looking to get rid of and who we are trying to sign.

Person/s just freely passing on what should be private information and then being described as "reliable"......the irony.