ROFLMAO

Yuo claim he was instrumental in those wins. Offer nothing but your opinion and a suggestion we watch the video. You dismiss the opinions polls of the best player as irrelevant. Tony offers links to match ihghl;ights and you dismiss those as not relevant.

PMSL.

You have nothing do you? Nothing?

We're talking Gotcha here.

So, let's summarise.

4 specified games where gotcha's opinion in that Buderus was key to our victory.

Not featuring in supporters polls as one of the 3 best players is to be ignored.
Watching the highlights is to be ignored.
Please ignore the fact that he contradicts himself in past threads because he was lying on those occasions, but not now obviously.

This has potential to be another Phil daly for you Gotcha.

Probably true but I hoped you were different. What with this revelation coming so soon after Damo's truely sickening, depraved image from yesterday all my heroes are self destructing.

Really? I dismissed it did I? you sure about that? because my post certainly doesn't read like that, and Tony didn't take it that way.

I said it quite clearly. Lets use another example shall we. You constantly tell all and sundry on here that you don't need stats to tell you whether somebody had a good game. Do we agree on this? Do you not say that stats do not show the game changing moments in a game, moments where a big tackle is made that takes momentum away, or even dropping the ball? Do we agree here.

Then please enlighten me, why do you think 10 minutes of highlights are going to show you anything other than you will see from a stats sheet? i.e. someone making meters, someone scoring, someone giving a try assist. You see Gareth it doesn't, what the highlights show you is people scoring.

Now lets be honest here, was that really what I said.

I understand what you're saying don't worry.

Basically, to summarise, any evidence anybody puts forward to show your opinion was nonsense is not reliable because it shows your opinion as being nonsense.

Duly noted.

Without wanting to get dragged into this mini discussion too much, I agree that whilst teh highlights can give a bit more context to some stats, they will not always pick up either critical moments, or some form of pattern emerging. You tend to only get one or two plays before the try.

They are likely to miss a big hit which forces the ball out that allows a restart on halfway, or a quick play the ball which allows cheap meters to be made. With every action in a game having a consequence you'll never get a full picture from highlights, but they should generally give more info than stats, but are just as dangerous to soley rely on in a discussion.

I think its clear to say that as well as having an opinion on a player, and that is very subjective, different people could watch the game back again and see things completely differently anyway, based on emotion, player preference, skills preference.

As a player I consider my main strength my defence and stamina, so I think I rate the strong defence over long spells higher than a great step and break, wheras Gareth may appreciate big collissions and toughness as skills and rate a rampaging run or quick play the ball as higher. And emotion can play the biggest part in the interpretation of it. Someone in the thick of the crowd may see someone who puts in one or two huge hits that get the crowd going, and rate that as a key contribution, others may see games on Sky+ after knowing the result, and be more analytical in their viewing, and whilst approving of the big hits, may be less caught up in the action, and notice the guy who dominates the tackle over and over again, in the process of slowing the play the ball down, and allowing the defense to set.

For these reasons I enjoy good debates on Southstander. Everyone has opinions, and these are based on certain things, which is why I will not always agree with someones opinion, but if they can articulate the reasons why, and demonstrate a good understanding of the game I will at least respect it, other peoples opinions are worth less respect as they are never based on any sort of analysis.

Agree entirely with all that Leicester.

But somebody seems to want to use things when he wants them, and dismisses the same things when it doesn't help them.

Then top it off by making inaccurate statements of what is said.

If you agree with Leicester's articulate and thoroughly accurate post you should think carefully about this Gotcha.



Analysis is the key. Those who may or may not disagree with your position have justified their opinions. I gave the man of the match polls, Tony Soprano offered match highlights and another poster offered your own contradicting opinions from another thread.

What have YOU offered?

I suspect, though he's nicer than me so he won't say it, that Leicester Rhino might categorise you as one of the posters he respects less because your opinions are based upon no analysis at all. I shall not embarrass him to comment.

Despite much evidence to the contrary I think Gotcha does actually have a good level of RL knowlegde and has more respect from me than many other posters.

He isn't however as articulate as you and does have the ability to over-exaggerate, contradict himself and not know when to quit. It doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's talking about, it just means that you and Danny can target him when you fancy winding someone up.

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As compliments go that's a bit back handed

but i can share the sentiment.

here here.

How very dare you. Hrumph!

Again, I agree with that, and on the view of me. You are absolutely correct on not articulate as Gareth, I would never argue otherwise on that. Infact that is the main attribute I admire about Gareth.

However, what Gareth is saying on this thread is completely wrong, he is just good at saying it.

I have given him example after example which completely contradicts what he is putting. But instead of providing a response, negative or otherwise, he just continues down the same lines, trotting out assumptions that are not true.

Having seen and played Rugby with you I can see you are a particiapting member of the game, but your true sport of SS.com baiting

[size=200OWNED[/size

I don't think he is wrong. He just sees his value to the team in a different way to you and I.

FWIW I can see why he thinks these things, and despite being a defender of him on these boards, he has still underperformed, I just think that the negatives are outweighed by his positives.

That's not what I was talking about. He's got an opinion on that which is fine, but the term "contributed virtually nothing" was ridiculous.

I was talking about the rest of the posts.

Out of interest where do people think Buderus comes on list of major signings of the last 10 years or so

I would say something like this

Donald
Poching
Furner
Leuluai
Bai
Webb
Lauiti'iti
Ellis
Peacock


I'm sure I've missed some there,a nd its quite hard to balance the various aspects, but I have tried to based on appearances, impact, expectation, commitment, reputaion, likely cost

I would say out of all them, including the disaster ones, that the biggest non event for me personally was Vowles.

I say that, not because he was bad, but because I personally thought he was an absolute class player, very under rated (despite man of steel), and a fantastic rugby brain on him. But for some reason it just didn't quite work out here for him.

I'd agree with that. I was very disappointed in the difference in his form from Cas to Us.

Still

Vowles - South Stand - Lowes = Legend.

Vowles smacked James Lowes in the face.

Do not under-estimate that.

forgot about that.

Still, Vowles would have done a lot better trying to tackle properly rather than put king hits in all the time.

He wasn't the first either. The biggest non event ever for me (and I know Leeds have had plenty), is Richie Eyres. The difference in that lad on coming to Leeds and what he was away from here was huge.

That was a particularly poor era for underperformers.

Err.. cough , Paul Bell , cough