Exactly.

Would you keep Mac as the manager then?

Because I don't think there needs to be too much change to the squad if we get a new coach in.
Brian Mclenan got sacked for finishing 4th so surely finishing 9th isn't good enough?

Yes I would, for 1 more season at least.

If Segeyaro stays then we only really need a half back and a forward, maybe 2 depending on retirements, to be challenging for all 3 trophies again.

I guess whether Mac gets another season depends on whether GH views the outcome of the season has been largely beyond his control (eg no halfback signed, floods, injuries)

Yet he was the top tackler again with 46 and only Sutcliffe made more carries. Nice call!

He shouldn't be playing as long as he is, especially when Keinhorst is only getting 20 mins a game and Cuthbertson isn't playing much. It is just another example of Mac flogging some players and ignoring others.

To get back to the topic of the thread, it is because of these long term mistakes more than this seasons form why Mac should go

It would also depend on who would be the next coach? No point getting rid if you don't have someone you're truly happy with coming in. Worst thing would be to hire a new coach and find ourselves in 12 months saying it's not worked out and be looking again. Any potential new coach should be hired because you truly believe he can take the club forward, not just because you're desperate to get rid of McDermott and have a "surely anybody would be better than him" approach.

It's not like signing a new player who if he doesn't do well we can always drop him and play another player. Also he has to be the right fit with regards to the club culture and ethos. Some have said the club need a new coach because things need to be shaken up but I disagree. Perhaps tweaked, evolved, but not shaken up as it still clearly has worked over a decade.

JJB has a high work rate and can play long minutes. He also has an unmatched enthusiasm and never say die attitude which is infectious. He may not be as good as in his younger days but nobody matches his consistent high tackle rate which allows the likes of Garbutt to make make big metres due to less tackles (29 less than JJB against Hull KR and 373 less tackles for the season) In a team game players can have complementary roles. IMO JJB still has a vital role in the side and we play less well without him. Cuthbertson is a shadow of his former self and does not deserve a spot currently. Keinhorst does deserve more time in place of others rather than JJB.

Im not denying he is putting in good shifts, but he has looked tired recently and should be spelled more.

did you watch it? no. thought not. try watching a full game before giving an opinion

There are tackles and there are tackles - Bailey made loads of tackles as the 3rd man in!!

Stats can be very misleading nothing better than actually attending the game and seeing the action and making your observations.

This couldn't be more accurate. Juan is purely looking at stats, but even then for work rate and enthuisiasm he is spot on with the comment on that, because that is JJB all over. Not sure anybody puts in the same effort.

However, people who don't see the game and rely purely on stats, are missing the points of how many gaps he leaves in the line causing problems for others, how many tackles he is gulity of misses without recording, and just how much he gets put backwards in the collission when making tackles. These are all import issues that effect a game.

It is a fine balancing act, with what you lose without him there, and what you gain with having him there. Tough decision at times to be honest.

Whilst I agree about needing to attend a game to judge a performance, the idea that 3Rd man in tackles not counting is strange. That third man in can have a huge bearing on the outcome of the tackle, and in my view shows a player using extra energy to help the team as a whole. Its the sort of good work which largely goes unseen

Lost for words with this thread.....

JJB made some brilliant tackles and his work rate was amazing. however when he had to move laterally he was all at sea. no legs. he left gaps all over

That's not what I am saying - what I am saying is there is a huge difference in energy required to take the initial impact than the energy required to add weight as the third man in the tackle. Would you say it would be tougher to take 45 initial hits or be the third man in on 45 tackles?

Perhaps the tackling stats would be better if they reflected the nature of the tackle?

according to andrew johns in his book the third man is the most important as he controls the speed of the play the ball. I understand about impacting the first tacklers energy mind

What's the story with Cuthbertson? Been way off the pace all year. I've presumed he's been playing injured.

Was anonymous again Friday night.

he's never looked fit to me, not even close. hopefully a good off season will see him right

Have to agree with every word. Wish it were different but sadly it's not.

energywise taking the initial hit is usually worse for me, personally. However, third man in will usually have to come from several meters away, take legs, hit the floor, get up and sprint back in time for the next tackle. That takes lots out of the tank too. Its certainly worse than being second man in, in my own experiences.

Tackling stats would be better with an additional stat to indicate first up tackles

JJB never struck me as a guy who was often 3rd man in though to boost his numbers.

Spot on. Awful season. Changes at the top required.

not sure that's whats been said, sometimes you are 3rd man by necessity rather than choice

Prepare to be disappointed. Not that i don't agree with you.