Yeah I get where you're coming from, and I'm sure there are critical situations where some bullying type approach is effective and necessary (a game situation is a critical one). However the evidence is that long-term relationships are not built and supported this way, it's a tactical approach at best. You're also making a lot of assumptions in the above para, which we won't be able to debate on this forum!

I would agree that there are instances where a bit of friction and aggression between team mates might be necessary and healthy and natural, but I'd disagree that this is the secret sauce missing which would make Leeds more successful. Performance is a multi-factoral output of course.

Pretty much all the examples of past successful teams with this kind of internal friction are using examples of worldy players who have the platform and credibility to behave that way. In most cases if you try to hold an alpha male to account, you're more likely to get a smack in the mouth than sustainably increased performance. In many cases this behaviour will actually lead to breakdown of trust and introduce team dysfunction... but yeah this forum probably not the best place!

You're not the only person who has ever worked in a high-intensity environment where performance is demanded Tads, sports or not.

No responsibility? What is your evidence for that view? Frawley literally got dropped last game due to performance at Hull. Olpherts was shipped on before his contract ended. Loads of dead wood has been pruned out since RS came in, and I think he was right in just about every case - those players are either in Championship now or in teams at the bottom of the table (funnily enough, about where we were when they played for us...). Higher up responsibility: well we will see about RS, and GH seemed to admit himself recently that the "transition" wasn't handled well, but he seems too comfortable to me.

I don't see a side that doesn't care, we probably aren't going to agree here and I know I'm in the minority on here, fair enough. I'm sure there are some robust and honest conversations happening behind closed doors. I think the players and coaches care tremendously.

Where we're at is a main squad which probably isn't good enough to win super league anyway, hammered by injuries again (you can call that an excuse if you like, but I disagree, I would call it a reason), and with a relatively inexperienced head coach who is struggling to convince. Is it the squad? Is it the injuries? Is it the coach? Probably all three but to what degrees, who knows.

I mean I do have the odd smile but not trolling my friend.

Roberts is not a winger, he is a centre who has been asked to cover wing as least bad option. If anyone actually reads what I write, I said I could see Roberts developing as a back row - I don't see the pace or evasion required for a SL centre in him yet. He's like 22 we'll see - he may end up in Championship yet.

TNW - he's also young and will fill out, but right now he is too small for a regular SL prop. You think he's going to give us the go-forward and domination down the middle at this stage in his development? He should get some game time on the bench, he is a good prospect for the future.

Riley Lumb has literally just torn his hamstring half off trying to run through grown men. Yes, he is too lightly built QED. He will get stronger and as he does, he is a great prospect for the future, I like him lots.

any excuses under the sun.
look at me, I accept mediocrity.welcome to more seasons of crap

We've been rubbish pretty much since 2017 mate, I don't know why mediocrity is suddenly a big thing!

Supporting Leeds is a bit like rolling in a field of mediocrity cat nip.

We will be good again one day, just not seemingly this year. It could be worse, we could be Hull (although that was kindof us once or twice...).

Plenty to get excited about going forward whoever is coach. I think we have a clutch of Super League players coming through the system finally.

Mediocrity is not acceptable for Leeds rhinos , probably one of the most iconic clubs in the league. The best ground in super league, with the best corporate and off field activities in the league. Not forgetting one of the biggest following in the league. Clutch of players coming through, not all of the stars in the youth set make the grade. It’s a big step up and some can’t handle it, so it would be a gamble to rely on that aspect of player recruitment.
Also I wouldn’t trust Smith to recognise any potential talent, looking at his track record so far. Hull should be a salutary warning as to what happens when you get several seasons of gentle decline. The decline stops and the club implodes. Looking over at Wigan ,Peet states he may be only looking at maybe one or two additions for next season as he has got the squad he wants. That shows what can be achieved with correct players recruitment and sound management. I was going to say wigan are one of our main rivals. Unfortunately they aren’t , seeing as we seemed to have fallen into regular mid table activities.

We all want Leeds to be winning again of course - we have disagreement among forum members on how to do it.

I don't actually think we need more than 2-3 new players next year to make a tilt for the title. Each of those players needs to be in a Croft bracket of quality though - there is no point us signing anyone who isn't capable of helping us win a title now, otherwise we're running to stay still.

Nicely, I wouldn't use Hull as the example, we have already been through that phase in my view. We very nearly got relegated not so long ago if you remember. We were awful (before RS). I'm confident the player roster is moving in the right direction, slowly but surely - I'm not so confident we're going to see much more than a top-half finish this year though. We'll see.

I dont have confidence in the theory that smith just needs 2-3 signings to mke a push for the top, the signings this year have been significant but there hasnt been even an incremental improvement (even when weve had a fit squad to choose from) a dozen games in and we havent seen the best form from big signings like croft and ackers. I heard some claim early in the season that we'll put some big scores on teams when the pitches firm up, i really dont know what they were watching to assert that.

Tomkins said on sky a few weeks ago about the strengths and weaknesses of Millar not ammounting to a top level full back and im afraid hes right. Much like the collective team and way of playing, theres moments of brilliance but theyre far outweighed by the errors.

Smith may well leave of his own volition but ill bet that there wont be a SL or NRL club jumping at the chance to appoint him (and his brand of rugby) as their head coach.

Smith’s signings have been a mixed bag, but not universally bad. I’m glad Ackers, Croft, McDonnell, Ruan, Hudson, Miller are at the club. Mom could grow on me.

If we make garbage signings next year there is no excuse and even my patience will go again.

I still say if we get that pack sorted once and for all, our back line is decent. There is better quality and breadth of young talent coming through now. I feel we have turned the corner, but we’re still behind where we should be.

Is Hudson even likely to get a game this year? He was touted as the extra big man we needed.

Just said on another thread, but he's injured again (hamstring). If fit and in condition I think he could offer something off the bench this year but we'll have to see - he came to the game quite late. I'm not sure if he's contracted with us for 2025, I saw his name on a list of out-of-contract players.

I agree that possibly 2-3 signings could take us near, however, I believe it is 2-3 signings plus an astute coach who can get the best out of Oledzki, Holroyd, Ackers, Newman etc.

Well I think Oledski, Ackers and Newman have all been in good form so far this season, I'm not sure what more you're expecting? Holroyd has been disappointing in his development from being a young bull in the academy bossing the Aussie schoolboys around, but he needs to get and stay fit.

Think you'll see both Oledski and Ackers look better with another real high quality enforcer prop in the mix too.

As for the coach, you may or may not be right but that squad definitely looks undercooked for a proper tilt at the title to me regardless. We need to fix that for definite. The coach position will resolve itself in the end either way I'm sure.

Not sure I agree that Newman has been good this season.
One or two nice touches granted but overall I think considering he is an England International centre he has done nothing to suggest he will keep his place in the England 17 next time around.

On player form, with the new spine, it's clear we no longer know how to implement Cam Smith, who looks a bit lost to me this season.

Last year, despite over-playing at lot, was clearly out most influential player. Croft has been astonishing, given what he has to work with in terms of assists. He has no right to be top of the SL charts the way we've played.

Ackers has been average, again, probably due to the way we play and lack of domination.

There's too many players trying too hard when they play. Holroyd and Bentley are definitely in that mould, and Miller is the same. Miller for me needs to play the most simple game possible. Focus on good kick returns, playing the ball properly and being in good defensive positions. At the moment he's trying too hard to make something out of nothing and putting us under pressure.

I think Newman has been solid but I think he has a lot more to offer than we have so far seen. Likewise, Ackers.

Whilst I think Oledzki has been better this season, I again think he has more levels in him. I just hope we eventually see them levels.

Agreed with Miller. Just do the fundamentals and he will probably look a lot better for it.

Newman is one of the best athletes we have (when fit). We have shown absolutely no idea how to use him in recent times, he should be an absolute weapon on the flanks, but we see him running inside jinking across the line more often than not. All comes from not making enough metres in the forwards and missing quick PTB's to effectively spread the ball against a defence that isn't set.

And this is exactly why i was critical of the reliance on 'trick plays' earlier in the year as the fundamentals of creating space in good ball are non existent. And i still think that the off the cuff approach to practice and how we play has been detremental to that because rather than the opposition being kept on their toes by an early shift play option, its become so easy to defend because weve nothing else and its even more exposed when Handleys been missing.

The whole team looks under pressure to me, too many individuals trying to make miracle plays and solve things individually, rather than looking to put a team mate away instead.

Completely agree. One might even conclude coaching has something to do with that....

Correct

One could also conclude that coaching is one of a number of elements that has something to do with that.

Good coaching can negate a whole host of those factors.

The forwards aren't laying a platform - a complaint we hear a lot in RL, but it is as true of this Leeds team as any I have seen.

I'm not sure why Leeds didn't address this in the off-season. RS bears some responsibility here. Given the limited pool of players available I suspect we gambled on blowing a lot of our forward budget on Ackers, who is obviously a better 9 than O'Connor, but it has left us weak up front.

I'm not sure if any of our front or back rowers really scare the opposition. You know the feeling when the likes of Satae, Walmsley etc come on - Leeds are going to struggle to contain these players. Do we do that to opposition teams? Probably not. They are scared of the likes of Miller, Newman and Handley breaking from deep but it's not our forwards that inspire fear.

There's Lisone, I suppose. He can have impact but I wonder if he's the best use of an overseas quota space.

It's a problem that the club have struggled to deal with since the days of Peacock, Leuluai and Cuthbertson in their prime. The likes of Prior and Seumanufagai stemmed the tide but their homegrown replacements haven't matured enough yet. Tetevano was a disappointment but he would walk into our pack if he was available now (pre-health issues, of course).