Some fair points Gotcha - Having had personal experience of two boys going through the amateur system - one at Lock Lane and one at Kippax the quality of coaching can be very patchy. The commitment of amateur coaches should not be questioned but how do you focus on skill development and retain interest if the team never wins a game?

Clubs like Stunningly and Oulton seem to strike a very good balance between participation and excellence. Maybe AG is correct and the RFL should be in charge of development between the ages of 16-19 and only at that point are the players released to the clubs? That way you stop clubs developing players in a certain way to suit the needs of the club rather than player development.

To beat the Aussies we need a core of 10 high quality players in that 10 we must top players at 1,3,4,6,7 and 9 and this is where we struggle - Bateman at centre at international level isn't going to scare anyone.

Apologies for being a bit spammy but it's too long for a forum post even by my (or Printer's) standards.

There's a piece on the four keys to a Rhinos win tonight up on my blog, see link in signature.

As you were...

FFS! I just caught a bit of Monkey Life on TV too! Primates chucking sh.. at each other.
Stop bitching!
We need to look toward the RFL and it's inept management of the game, the lack of nurturing of young talent, the patchy skills focus for youngsters, the choke-hold on fresh money and ideas, the salary cap, the disrespect to the game via incompetent refs being held up as 'top flight', the laughable level of presentation via Sky - EH, MS , and the standard of coaching - does anyone really think that we have a full complement of top coaches in SL? We do have some world class players who must be sick to death of being put down, running into brick walls more often than the oncoming opposition. I fell in love with this game late, having grown up on soccer. What I love about this game is the athleticism, the skills, the teamwork, the passion and the heart. As I said earlier we are not on a level playing field in some of these areas BUT in some we sure are! We can aim higher. The lead should come from the top. IMO the Rhinos are the closest to being able to compete - everything about the club is worthy of respect from the financial management to the Foundation, to the team ethos, to the work ethic, to the involvement in schools, the interaction between players and the community, the focus on skills development for youngsters across the city and beyond,etc etc...
I hope we can compete tonight too. I know one thing for sure - the team will take to the pitch determined to do their best, despite the injuries, despite the previous cynicism, despite the constant hurdles put in the way of British clubs. If they pull it off great. If not then it will not be the end of the world or the WCC, but let it be the final kick up the backside of the RFL, which needs a wholesale change to progress, and can lead eventually to a more level playing field. Here's to a win!

Isnt that simply going to keep more young 15/16/17 year olds playing at a lower level, in poorer facilities, with poorer coaching for longer?

And how does 8 academies fit to 12 (realistically for this system to work 24) sides? An independent development system seems incompatible with this system in my opinion.

i dont think that our problem stems from a lack of commitment or will to learn from 15/16/17 year old kids.

Excellent post.

Athleticism is a significant component that's lacking in those average players. Their body shape is too bulky/top heavy when compared to the Broncos players.

No. It's going to uplift the most promising players out of the well-meaning but ineffectual coaching and poor facilities of their community clubs, and hothouse them alongside other players of similar quality with the best coaches. The difference is, it takes the self interest of the clubs out of it. The focus won't be on winning youth titles or academy championships, it will be about producing the most skilful, rounded players for the professional game.

When players graduate the regional academies at the age of 18, they will then be at liberty to sign for any professional side they want.

thats fine and id be in favour of such a thing. Bar cutting the number of academies.

Who pays them at 16/17 then?

I've just been out this morning coaching my U16s and as our team were arriving and I was setting up I watched yet another group of u7/8s queue in a line of 18 waiting to run the ball into 2 'coaches' holding tackle shields. This poor practice is unfortunately common throughout most clubs.

I took my current team on as u9/u10s they were in group/division 4 and were the 'B' team at the club in our age group. I went into coaching 13 years ago (this is my second team) in order to develop my career and to develop players In the right way at the right age group. My knowledge and expertise allowed me to see what the long game should be about, to develop sustainable core principles, skills and of course the enjoyment of the game without the concern of winning and losing, as a product of these methods we have climbed the divisions and are in the premier. Some parents took convincing but my role as coach was to deliver the right messages to the players so that win or lose they could see why we were doing things the way we were (...and of course having fun). Unfortunately at a crucial age our children on the whole are being coached in the way I referred to at the start of this post, and therefore our talent pool at the top of the game is largely reliant on the natural (yet still restricted) ability of a relatively small number of players.

What top Aussie player did we have in 2012 or 13, by then Buderus had gone and Webb was being pushed out the team by Hardaker
In Moon and Cuthbertson weve got better imports than we did then

:3apcwpp8

I think we know that if the Aussies had won that 4N game by 20/30 points that he'd say it WAS a meaningful game.

Thing is all this talk of meaningful, I actually think the English level has dropped slightly from a few years back. Yes of course they still want to win but I remember previous years when the WCC game was the main talk from the moment the GF finished.....this year only really in the last 2 weeks has it come to the front of minds.

This from McDermott

"Hooker Beau Falloon, who sustained a broken toe in training last month, has yet to make his competitive debut and McDermott admitted there was a “temptation” to risk him tomorrow. He said as well. They are both not far off, but then you look at the grand scheme of things we have got another 28 rounds to go in the league season and it would be silly.

“We could lose them long-term, really long-term and that would damage our journey along the way in Super League. The smart option is to be disciplined and wait while they get back fully fit.”

Simply wouldn't have happened a few years back to have that attitude towards the game. I also doubt now that if in 12 months time if Wigan are yet again in one of the 2 non-title games they'll be in any rush to risk players or take it as seriously as previous years after what happened to McIlorum and others last night.

If Warrington keep going strong in SL and after Leeds had such a strong start in 2015 when they didn't participate in the WCS then it won't be long until SL clubs deem it to be an unneeded distraction. Add to the scorelines then the attendances will start to drop towards normal SL game levels.

People defend it saying playing these games will help improve our clubs.....they won't. We've been playing these games continuously since the turn of the century and 16 years later people are still saying we're as far away as the ill fated 1997 competition. So what do we do, play these games in the hope that in the year 2039 we might be close, it's a pipe dream. If playing an NRL team once a year was going to improve SL then you'd have seen that idea come into practise by now.

Truth is all these games really do is offer a chance for some fans to drool over NRL players and say SL is rubbish.

the hysteria and fawning of the Aussies on these forums after a couple of comprehensive results is borderline cringeworthy.

What Seth said!!
He brings a ray of sunshine to this subject getting a good airing. Far too often we see those lines of small striggly legged kids in extra-long baggy shorts, jumping up and down with such joy in the queue, only to catch the ball once before dashing off to the back of the queue again. That is unlikely to produce skilled, motivated world class players in a million years. What is seen in Oz on any Saturday morning is, as we have seen this weekend so far, a different ball game.
Good luck with your efforts Seth.

In spite of all the negativity currently being expressed, I'm excited by the fixture this evening and can't wait for kick off. It's an all too rare opportunity to witness some world class players at Headingley exhibiting world class skills.

I've booked my ticket and seat in the North Stand and just need to sort out my cushion, blanket and flask of Twinings Australian Late Afternoon Tea!

Hope it's another fantastic advert for the game

It's disappointing to observe your half-empty glass on such a big day for the club as this.

You know the pressure of the NRL academies has caused a ton of suicides in the past few years right?
for me that intense pressure isnt worth it, and wont bring much better players
we just need to change the way the game is coached from a young age, to appreciate the 1 per like you said

enjoy the game.

Thank you, it's been an incredibly enjoyable journey and I've had the pleasure of working with some great players. Unfortunately (I think!) I will be retiring from voluntary coaching at the end of this season with a heavy heart but it is a huge commitment and it's time I 'got a life'



I've been heavily involved in coach education, though this only gets us so far with our current infrastructure and reliance on committed yet misguided parents who in most cases don't possess the skills required to be a coach/teacher. Some of the principles though at the age I mentioned earlier should be easy enough to grasp; fun, as many touches of the ball as possible and keep it simple.

I'm generally not a fan of Sean big flop' oloughlin but he was about right in his post match comment that the Aussie's didn't do anything we don't see in sl, they just did it faster, harder and with more accuracy.

Broken down rl like all sports is a simple concept. It's understanding as said earlier how to get those marginal gains.

For example .How many unforced errors have the nrl clubs made in their own half? When do the nrl clubs start to move it wide? Bearing in mind the nrl is still mid pre season they just play the game smarter.

That is a pretty ridiculous statement, Watkins and Mcgilvery were in the world XIII last year and imo Watkins was better than James Roberts (Dally M centre of the year) who has a very good running game but isn't very skillful and was anonymous last night
Also as exited as you are about seeing Matt Scott, you presumable saw JP play for us for 10 years, and he is clearly the superior prop
If there are no world class players in SL then why did Graham get in the Dally M and World team of the year in his first year down under, the sad fact is some players dont get rated as world class (by people like you) until they play down under, a key reason for us loosing a lot of our top talent

I dont think that the game tonight is as hopeless as you guys are making out:
Even with all the injuries weve got weve still got 4/5 of our backline plus ferres and Cuthbertson who are better than their opposite numbers

Please don't be under any illusion, we will lose tonight. That isn't an issue though as the changes from last season plus injuries has us in a hole right now. What I'm wanting to see is a team working and fighting for each other. If we can gain some credit for tonight and push last week away we can push on through the tricky games coming up.
Tonight is more about character than the scoreboard.

Lets hope the team dont have that attitude or it will be like Saints last year, there is no reason we cant win even if it is unlikley
If every player commits everything and defends switched on and to their capabilities then weve got a shot
If we get beaten by a last minute effort like Brisbane last year then so be it, but I wont except that it is a forgone conclusion and if the team are looking at it that way they should take of their shirts as they wouldnt be fit to wear them

And the Cowboys always start the year slowly. I think they'll win but not by scores like last night and Friday.

I can say I can vouch for this, as seen him first hand, and his team play. Very highly regarded is Seth at his club.

And to answer Sal from earlier, I do accept there is some not so good ones out there, but to give another example of getting it right. Last year Kippax under 13's started off the season in division one of their age group, and hammered everyone with ease for the first 8 games. Then Yorkshire juniors decided to change the split in the leagues at all age groups, so the Kippax coach requested that his team be put in the under 14's league for the rest of season. He explained to all the parents who were concerned, that winning every week so easily was doing their development no favours. He told them all, that yes the age group above is more physical, and therefore they will probably lose games, but he made a commitment that the style they would play, by the end of the year they would beat these under 14's teams.

That team learned to pass and move with speed. The physical side did not become a problem, once they knew they would beat teams by passing. That is a skilful team with some very good players. Those players were not poached from other teams, they have developed. It can be done right.

The RFU effectively banned that. We were all warned not to do it because one kid got hurt by an "enthusiastic" coach who pushed back. Yet still the muppet who was our self appointed head coach tried to do it every week. Every week I would have to stop him.
I tried for 5 years to progress skills and eventually gave up after one too many full on shouting matches. In every one of the six minis age groups at our club we had a self appointed head coach who ignored the club coaching structure (designed so all the kids got to 16 with the right skills, calls and club patterns) and did whatever their bull***t personal "rugby" philosophy was - usually shaped to fit the limitations or perceived strengths of their own kids.

To be fair my lad switched to swimming full time last year and our experiences of the ASA and the people who have taken positions of responsibility (most in our county are well over 70 and never swam at all) make other sporting bodies come out as superstars.