And then watch clips of 50 boxing coaches telling boxers to smash their opponents nose into their skull and realise that the terminology of coaching might not fit the childish PG world you live in.

Indeed.

As for the "damage" this has done to the game in the national consciousness, I'm not buying that either.

Give it a week until some Premier League footballer has made a muppet of himself (thanks, Raheem Sterling for starting that ball rolling) and it will all but disappear from the media.

IMO it's no worse than Duncan McRea's assault on Ronan O'Gara, or Schalk Burger's gouge during the Lions tour to SA. They don't seem to be the first thing anyone thinks of when rugby union comes up in discussion, despite the sizeable amount of press they generated at the time.

The sad fact is it has now made the main ITV news (last night). Apparently the police have submitted the case for perusal by the CPS.

When was the last time RL made the main news TV non sport bulletins?

Isn't the purpose of boxing to damage their opponent and knock them out? Isn't the purpose of Rugby League, to entertain spectators with entertaining passing in a team environment with the purpose of scoring tries, and to tackle within the rules to prevent tries against?

Not sure where the link is with the example.

There isn't one, that's why no-one can find a link.

Wane's tactics of getting his players so worked up has worked fairly well for most of the season, partly due to the leniency of the disciplinary and referees in not penalising more harshly the parts of Wigan's game that goes beyond just good, aggressive defence. But it's finally backfired spectacularly in the Grand Final. He got one of his less experienced, less talented players so worked up that he went well beyond the line. In only the 2nd minute.

We've seen Wigan's game all year, something like this has been coming.

I'm not sure about less talented. I would take Flower over about any other of their forwards, assuming O'Loughlin's days are diminishing.

It's starting to sound as teeth-gnashy as the Wigan board round here.

It's not tiddlywinks, it's Rugby League. Big daft lads being aggressive and physical. A line is crossed sometimes, as it was here. A ban will be forthcoming.

Here's a thing, hands up who doesn't find a bit of biff on the field quite exciting? Most people do. I predict the incident will do the following material damage to Rugby League: .

I don't think there are many Super League packs he wouldn't get in.

I said ahead of the game that Wigan's forward success is built on attitude, aggression and collectivity. It is the most effective pack in the League, but there are only 3 individuals I'd be particularly keen to swap individuals in Leeds' team for: Flower, McIlorum and O'Loughlin.

I don't have the problem that some do with Wigan's game. If I had to pinpoint the only thing - apart from Flowere's one-off - that makes me uneasy it would be the enthusiasm with which the third man in strikes the lower leg(s) of the ball carrier. Apart from that, fine.

You really are a complete moron if you cannot see the difference.
I'm all for coaches firing up their teams to play hard, indeed I wouldn't expect anything else, but telling them to knock them out?
Knock them down but do it hard & tough & within the laws of the game.

I don't have a problem with Wigan's aggressive defence, it's great to watch. I do have a problem with twisting legs on the ground, taking players out off the ball and, like you say, the third man tackles to the legs.

They all stem from an aggression that's obviously pumped into them by the coaches and style of play. All Wigan and Wane need to do is tone it down a tad and a lot of those issues go away, as does Flower's moment of madness.

Wane's closeness and affinity for Wigan has helped them a lot in recent years, but on this occasion, in my opinion, it's at least partly the cause of them not winning the GF.

Spot on. There are some potentially dangerous tactics creeping into the play book of too many teams. Unless curtailed it will become a bigger problem and will lead to career ending injuries or worse.

I agree with this guy.

The lower leg attacks appeared under Maguire. I am not really sure why it hasn't been clamped down on - not just from Wigan, but all over the league. Arguably, with the dirty stuff post-contact, what Wigan are really guilty of is being better at it than everyone else.

But I also enjoy the aggression and physicality with which their forwards go about their business. When I first went to games as a bairn it wasn't the skill of the likes of Schoey and Heron that first got me hooked. It was the big collisions with people like Paul Dixon.

He's been asked about it....

"The WCC documentary captures Wane telling Wigan’s players to “create mayhem” and “be reckless”. Wigan’s chairman, Ian Lenagan, addressed the issue of the documentary on BBC Radio 5 Live on Monday morning, claiming that his coach had been misrepresented by the editing process."

So there you go, it's just bad editing really.

Interesting fact on the Wigan board that over the last two seasons Leeds players have copped more bans than Wigan players. Not sure where he got it from probably made it up because it couldn't possibly be true. Wigan obviously are the only team in super league to try high shots and three men in the tackle. And the coach must be the only coach to tell them to get stuck in. Wouldn't happen at any other club. Oh no.

That's because the RFL have it in for Leeds but Wigan are their darlings. As any fule no.

Hohaia wasn't playing in the laws of the game when he deliberately obstructed Flower. The instruction I think EVERY coach would give Flower is that if someone's obstructing you from an area you need to be in then you do pretty much whatever is needed to get to your position. I don't think there's a coach or a ref who would have had a problem with what Flower did in the first impact. IMO the perfect ref decision at that point would have been to award Wigan a pen for Hohaia's obstruction.

When Hohaia went at Flower with his elbow Flower was 100% within his rights by knocking him out. A prop who gets knocked about by a half back is not worth having.

It was only the dig on the knocked out Hohaia that was an issue. I think Wane would have wanted to knock Flower out for coming up with that.

First of all I would agree with most and say that in watching the game for over 40 years I haven't seen much worse than happened on Saturday. It was a very nasty incident and should be dealt with severely. I also have no time for the primate who coaches wigan.
I do however feel that hysteria has taken over and the rfl should be left to deal with this.
I cant help but draw comparisons with a young Barry Mc who had issues with discipline and the tackle (elbow) on Paul Sironen was an absolute shocker. What I'm saying is that Barry moved on and became a Rhinos legend and GB international. I think that flower can do the same but not at Wigan. He needs a fresh start in a good environment and Leeds would be as good as anywhere.
Not condoning what he did but we need to move on.

I don't think Wigan are particularly bad for headhunting. High tackles happen everywhere. Mainly with little malice.

I think the problem with the third-man-in stuff (whatever team does it) is that it isn't being policed as things stand. So that stat (which I assume is accurate since I can't be bothered checking) doesn't really have much relevance.

You may notice that I don't have an anti-Wigan agenda. I think they are probably the worst perpetrators of the "cannonball" approach, but it doesn't seem to be interpreted as dangerous by officialdom, and until it is, it is for the sport to clamp down on it, not Wigan.

Bravo sir, bravo. Have you ever heard the old adage about remaining quiet and letting people think you're an idiot rather than opening your mouth and removing all doubt?

Let's have a look at your ridiculous comments one by one shall we?
Hohaia wasn't playing in the laws of the game when he deliberately obstructed Flower. If you interpret running in the same direction towards the ball and Flower having to move in order to hit him then yes, you're absolutely right.
The instruction I think EVERY coach would give Flower is that if someone's obstructing you from an area you need to be in then you do pretty much whatever is needed to get to your position. Would 'pretty much anything' include catching them with a swinging arm around the back of the head? I doubt it would somehow.
I don't think there's a coach or a ref who would have had a problem with what Flower did in the first impact. I think every single coach (including Shaun Wane) would have an issue with their half back being hit around the head from behind and off the ball by a prop forward. If you mean in him doing it for your team, then I think if the ref doesn't see it no coach has a problem, if the ref sees it then you're berating your prop for giving away a needless penalty when in a good attacking position.
IMO the perfect ref decision at that point would have been to award Wigan a pen for Hohaia's obstruction. Until the rules are changed and it becomes illegal to run in the same direction as a Wigan player that is simply wrong.
When Hohaia went at Flower with his elbow Flower was 100% within his rights by knocking him out. Really? Knocking someone out cold (and the inevitable and compulsory red card that must follow) is a fouled players entitlement now is it? Arguably the most ridiculous thing you've said in a diatribe of nonsense. May I be the first to wish Wigan good luck next year, because using this fantastic new ruling McIllorum, Dudson and O'Loughlin are going to finish every single match unconscious.
A prop who gets knocked about by a half back is not worth having. Yes, because if a well built and muscular professional sportsman can knock you out then you must be some kind of balsa wood woman type. Of course ignoring the fact that not only did he not knock him out he merely moved him a bit.
It was only the dig on the knocked out Hohaia that was an issue. Unless you've paid attention to the rules and realised that a deliberate punch to the head is a statutory red card. If you ignore that, and the initial foul play by Flower that started the whole affair, then yes, his abominable act of thuggery and cowardice is the only issue. If you don't ignore them (which the disciplinary panel won't - especially the knockout punch) then it's just the biggest issue of a player who was seeing red before Hohaia even hit the ground.
I think Wane would have wanted to knock Flower out for coming up with that. And finally something we can agree on.

Just for the future can you at least give your ramblings a tiny chance, this is fish in a barrel time.

Wigan use the tactic of putting in a few bordeline high shots and then if a player retaliates they all pile in and overreact. It's obviously coached, it was a clear tactic used against us at the Magic weekend after we bossed them earlier in the season at home.
Sledging and niggling, knee shots, facials are all designed to stimulate a reaction which Wigan forwards can then wade into. Referees have always struggled to deal with situations where several players all go in at once in "response" to a single player lashing out after taking repeated cheap shots. Flower was effectively programmed to wind up someone, then overreact when that player lashes out as happened on Saturday.
This was our showpiece end of season event and it was ruined and the sport itself was embarrassed.


Even in the legendary days of "biff" you got sent off for laying out a half back in a big final - just ask Sid Hynes

Six months is a joke imo, should at least 12. I hope the RFL appeal this decision.
[urlhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/29612687[/url

6 month ban www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/29612687

6 month ban www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/29612687

When is six month not six month?

agree