Same old story really wasn't it? It highlights so many fundamental issues with SL and British league yet again.

Lack of FUNDAMENTALS such as ball control under the slightest pressure. That simply highlights the fact that in SL teams don't get punished enough for making mistakes. If they did, all players would be control the ball better, and you'd certainly expect our best players to be mainly error-free.

Inability to read what are bog standard attacking plays in the NRL. That would be hard to understand until you watch England with the ball. Absolutely no structure of note. No setting up a set of 6 to a plan. Centres who have almost literally no idea what lines to run, how to put a defence in two minds or set up a a winger. If they can't run the plays themseleves it probably shouldn't surprise anyone that they can't defend against them.

Dreadfully poor kicking game. This is one I simply don't understand. Even in SL this ought to be an important skill.

Lack of fitness. We are always being told we match the Aussies in this regard, but to me our teams simply don't look not as fit or dynamic as Aus/NZ.

Lack of athletes in the backs. Some of our threequarters look like donkeys amongst thoroughbreds.

....and the list goes on.

We could just fold the tent and walk away from internationals, but I for one want to see England competitive and enjoy watching tests. At the moment its just a sense of foreboding followed by the usual claptrap about closing the gap after we've been handed our a*ses again. In the Aussie press they've thrown around words like 'bumbling', 'incompetent' and 'humiliation' - and who can blame them?

The only way to get better is to do something different. Short-term there's virtually nothing we can do but get more British players in the NRL, particularly backs. I'd also seriously scour both the NRL and SL for England-qualified Aussies. In the long-term though it comes down to the old chestnuts of player development and overseas players in SL.

More British players in the NRL would just mean we would be even more devoid of talent to watch here.... As I said - depressing though it is - we have to stop pretending. Spectators want to see unpredictable competitive outcomes... At club level we have a good product helped by the antipodean influx and the WCC shows success in that respect. We should build on success.

Because the last time we picked 'em against Aus, we lost 52-4.

If we could arrange an extended WCC where all games are played at the home of the SL clubs and the NRL clubs are all forced to arrive in the UK a couple of days before each game during their off-season with ball and chain attached to each players leg, then yes... we might be a bit more competitive and successful.

We need to get more of our players going out to play in the NRL and there's probably quite a few that would make it given the chance but most of them if not all would be forwards IMO and it would weaken the SL.
Would many of the backs currently playing in SL get in an NRL side? I'm not sure they would. Take Tomkins for example, how many NRL teams would he get in if he went over there? They've all got FB's that are better than him like Slater, Stewart, Hayne, Bowen, Boyd etc and the younger ones like Dugan and Coote are as good. I honestly dont think any of our backs would get a game in the first teams over there. Then there's the wages, they'll earn more over here being some of the better players for their club than they would if they went to an NRL team and be a reserve.
The Aussies will always be better simply because of the size of the game over there and the amount of kids they have playing the game compared to over here.

....or we could just forget it all, accept the game's limitations in the Northern hemisphere, stop embarrasing expansion plans even into our principality, ban NRL from our TV's to compare SL to, and remain 'happy' in splendid isolation.

I just think we are kidding ourself when people think we are getting better quoting we lost by 52 points 2 years ago. We were rubbish then and we are rubbish now, There is a massive gulf in quality of basic skills and a strength in depth. The team this year was depleated with some injuries and the players we brought in were very steady and nowhere near the level needed. SOL in the number 6 shirt was a joke, as was brown and Tompkins looked well out of his depth. The props were all poor, with the exception of Graham who although not the most dynamic can always be relied on. Thought the back row was where we were strongest and most agressive, but all the back positions were a joke.

Reasonably competitive would be an improvement on recent times and a step in the right direction.



Me. I went to the last World Cup in Oz and was very excited. As I was for the Tri Nations out there in 2006. As I was on Sunday morning when I got out of bed despite a monster hangover.



Hopefully the RFL don't give up on international RL as easily as some England supporters.

"Well if we can't win, I'm not going to watch."

What a pathetic, childish attitude.

Agreed FTV, given England's results against Australia and the Kiwis in 2008 and 2009 this year has been a marked improvement. If you wanted to split hairs you could argue that the Aussies in particular aren't as strong as they were in either of those tournaments, but neither are England with key players missing.

Keep trying, it's all we can do. However, I anticipate plenty more pain to come. Sam Tompkins is regarded by many to be England's best young prospect in the backs. While this may well be true I can't honestly see him, or any other emerging full back centre, scrum half or stand off, attaining the standard required to compete with kangaroos or kiwis.

Ask yourself, why is this the case?

Purely and simply that in order to be a megastar in the SL competition they don't have to attain those standards. They can happily get to a level where they are one of the best players in the competition then put their feet up rather than have to run to stand still as they would in the NRL.

TBH I can't see us winning the four nations or any equivilent competition in my lifetime.

It was only a few years ago that rather than compete with the Kiwis, we whitewashed them 3-0 over a series. We've done it before and will do it again.

The fact that we were whitewashing the kiwis a few years ago is null and void. That was before they were really supplying the NRL with some high quality players and competing at such a level week in week out.

Kicking game is a big part of the problem. At least by controlling a team with pinpoint kicking and a good chase you can minimise their chances in the red zone. I don't think there are many better english players at kicking a team to death than Sinfield when he is on form, but beyond that I can not think of many others.

Was Ryan Hall still injured on Sunday?

IMO Cudjoe looked promising at times.

You see, there, right there, is the whole problem in a nutshell. We do not have a good product at all, not by any standards. We have a crap product that is so brilliantly mass marketed, with brain washed spectators who believe every word that "Pinky and the Brain" tell them. This is evidenced every time we come up against a really good product. Can you honestly, hand on heart, tell me that Castleford V Wakefield is a good product, played with a high level of skill and intensity?

Until we realise that our own domestic standards are in fact shocking, we will not improve one jot on the international stage.

Sinfield has been off form in terms of field kicking for some time now IMO. Again IMO the most consistent field kicker in the league is Brough at Huddersfield. He is also the type of Scrum Half that would revel in international football.

In a nutshell. And one club supporters are so blind to their own players' shortcomings that they applaud them for it.

I wouldn't dispute that. My point is that it's likely to be some considerable time before it happens again. My guess is maybe 5-8 years minimum. Yours is?

The Guardian's take on the current position: www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/20 ... gby-league Re physical fitness, I'm sure that I read somewhere that the Aussie sides are back in training from now even though their season does not start until some weeks after ours. Whereas the Rhinos for instance are not due back until mid-November with a start to our season on Feb 12th. So every year the Aussies have an additional 6 weeks or so conditioning & training time compared to our players. That must have the effect of increasing the gap between us & our antipodean rivals. We need to play less games IMV to be able ever to compete consistently internationally. That won't happen so the downward spiral will continue.

The Guardian's take on the current position: www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/20 ... gby-league Re physical fitness, I'm sure that I read somewhere that the Aussie sides are back in training from now even though their season does not start until some weeks after ours. Whereas the Rhinos for instance are not due back until mid-November with a start to our season on Feb 12th. So every year the Aussies have an additional 6 weeks or so conditioning & training time compared to our players. That must have the effect of increasing the gap between us & our antipodean rivals. We need to play less games IMV to be able ever to compete consistently internationally. That won't happen so the downward spiral will continue.

Previous wins were null and void

In that case all our losses are null and void be because they were before we were supplying the NRL with some high quality players and competing at such a level week in week out.

Of course, you could just show me the difference in number of NZers playing in the NRL between 2006 and 2010.

The Kiwis have the same problem with the lack of depth that we do. So it's going to be next time we have more of our first choice players fit and healthy than they do, really.

Aside from some poor games between poor sides, I disagree entirely.
Compare our product to the other like products. I was dragged along to a PRU game this week (free ticket and chance to meet some parents of players I coach) and the standard was poor. Slow, error strewn, disorganised. Lets not even start on soccer


Our club level game is typically high effort, high skill level, high speed. Don't let a couple of end of season results convince you otherwise.

Quote ="Old Feller"The Guardian's take on the current position: www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/20 ... gby-league Re physical fitness, I'm sure that I read somewhere that the Aussie sides are back in training from now even though their season does not start until some weeks after ours. Whereas the Rhinos for instance are not due back until mid-November with a start to our season on Feb 12th. So every year the Aussies have an additional 6 weeks or so conditioning & training time compared to our players. That must have the effect of increasing the gap between us & our antipodean rivals. We need to play less games IMV to be able ever to compete consistently internationally. That won't happen so the downward spiral will continue.'" That's part of the problem - their offseason, when the serious strength, speed and skill work can be done, is twice as long as ours. We could play less games, but that means less money in the sport, meaning lower wages, less attraction to players, and less money to spend on marketing and community coaching.

Quote ="Old Feller"The Guardian's take on the current position: www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/20 ... gby-league Re physical fitness, I'm sure that I read somewhere that the Aussie sides are back in training from now even though their season does not start until some weeks after ours. Whereas the Rhinos for instance are not due back until mid-November with a start to our season on Feb 12th. So every year the Aussies have an additional 6 weeks or so conditioning & training time compared to our players. That must have the effect of increasing the gap between us & our antipodean rivals. We need to play less games IMV to be able ever to compete consistently internationally. That won't happen so the downward spiral will continue.'" That's part of the problem - their offseason, when the serious strength, speed and skill work can be done, is twice as long as ours. We could play less games, but that means less money in the sport, meaning lower wages, less attraction to players, and less money to spend on marketing and community coaching.

I had a conversation with Jason Cayless at the Tri-Nations in 2006, when he was playing for Saints.

He said the single biggest difference between the games on either side of the globe was the length of the pre-season and season. He was adamant that if they were comparable to the NRL in England then we would be far, far closer to the Aussies.

We start our seasons less fit and end them more tired as a result of more games and a worse pre-season. Not a good combination. He said he felt a long way behind his NRL teammates in terms of basic conditioning.