this Sal guy cant be a Leeds fan can he, this forum has more negativity than you can shake a stick at, the most successful team in the super league era, obviously to some it was all an accident and nothing to do with GH, your above post sums it up nicely

Have you not met Sal?

He's more of a Leeds fan than 90% of the posters on here, you know the most that can post on a message board but can't get their @rse to a game. Unsure what he has said, but just because some posters blind to anything the club does have a different opinion to someone else, doesn't make one right.

You forgot to add that he's a realist too.

The thing is the success of the club commercially spins of the success of the club on the field - I appreciate that is a concept that many on here find difficult to grasp.

Would you say it will have been easier to sell corporate packages for the 2016 season than it has been for the 2017 season?

Do you think the financial results for 2016 will be better or worse than those for 2015 - why do you think that might be?

Even you should be able to grasp that?

So when you say Sinfield made a lot of people look better than they are you meant he helped flog corporate packages and ST by being successful? How did Sinfield become successful by the way? By the club going with him and other academy guys and supporting them with quality recruits, hiring the coaches that led them to titles, getting the training ground at Kirkstall, a load of building blocks put in place by many people off the pitch done before Sinfield even lifted the title for the first time and then carried on afterwards. Whilst not the same success, Hudds have climbed up the league over the last several seasons and even got themselves a LLS but they haven't grown with that off the field and crowds still aren't what they should be so it's not a gimme that if you do well people will automatically turn up, people behind the scenes still have to work to do.

But suppose it easier to just lay all the credit for all the club has done both on the field and off it on Sinfield and say everyone else around him got lucky.

The groundsman needs to stop taking credit for winning all those awards for the pitch too.
He'd be nothing without Kevin Sinfield who, so I heard, came in on his days off to feed & water the grass with his own special fertilizer.

Hooray Big Bad Billy is back with his broad brushstoke, unsubstantiated, anti everything Leeds do, Bull Poop







We miss you when you go off for a sulk B.B.B., but on the other hand absence makes and all that....

6th rate wind up merchant and underemployed by plenty

I said what because I'm one of those or it maybe just me , but those smiley things by themselves I need a bit more .Anyway thanks foe that

When it was first announced about that land being sold to finance the work after the objections they had last time and they said they were working with LCC.I thought oh this is a done deal just needs to go through the formality of the planning permission process. So now they say again they are still working with consultation with LCC. It doesn't look like there is any other way they are going to get funding so why are LCC involved ?I wonder if they are exploring the possibibilty of relocation and LCC providing a site for both Rugby and Cricket ?

Without a winning side where does the money come from for two new pitches in the last five years? Much easier to keep a brand new sparkling piece of grass in tip top condition.

As we can see the club is hardly flush despite years of success driven in a large part by the most successful captain the club has ever had.

I think many of the problems the club faced & faces are due to the same factors that made us so successful over the past 10 years, built on the foundations laid by Hetherington & Caddick when they bought to club.
Sinfield said on a number of occasions that he & most of the other players could have left the club to earn more money elsewhere.
The fact that they didn't was partly in my estimation down to the longer contracts that GH offered to them.
These longer contracts have now come home to roost.
We know that GH values & rewards commitment & loyalty both during & after a player's career has ended.
Should he have been more ruthless with such as JJB, McGuire, Burrow etc, possibly, arguably even probably?
I think that many of GH's critics have short memories.
He does make mistakes but thus far his successes have far outweighed his failures.

It's not all about a winning side, and winning trophies. Having a side that plays good entertaining rugby can go a long way to keeping solid crowds, the 90s Dougie Laughton side won naff all but the rugby was generally very entertaining and sometimes sublime. That is my biggest hope for next year, and of course avoiding middle 8s, anything else is a bonus.

I have to agree with your analysis about the two way loyalty being key to the clubs recent sucess and a contributory factor in our current problems. I think that by and large GH and PC have done a good balancing act, the fading away of the "golden generation" was alwways going to be tough to manage because of the size of the cohort. But in defence of the record of the current management set up, I'd challenge the nay sayers to point out a more sucessful management team in the SL. The idea that we could transition and continue to dominate as we have over the past 10 or more years was fanciful at best. We have enjoyed a golden period culminating it the treble and hopefully we will have more sucesses to come, but we have no devine right to dominate.

Sinfield became successful through natural ability and personal drive and driving a culture that enable the club as a whole to progress.

Youre right we have no devine right to dominate but we deserve more than the tripe weve been served this off-season. As ive said before the crowds merchandise lack of recruitment and now more crap with the crumbling southstand. Gh obviously bargained on 13.000 crowds next year but that will now be 15.000 or more so get recruiting like a top 4 club should. The cap wont be full so get it spent!

This idea that Leeds are struggling for cash is fanciful rubbish from people with obvious agendas. What they can't do is finance a £20m+ redevelopment out of petty cash. They hoped to plug the gap between the several millions they do have and the total required through these associated developments.

Given the trouble Leeds have had with the planning department before I doubt anyone thought it would be trouble free and I'm sure they hoped it might have been sorted by now. But it looks like they do still hope to bounce them into accepting it for the "greater good".

Your first part is actually spot on. The second part although true, is actually off mark on why they have a current issue, although it may well have resolved it on it's own.

So if he came through Wakefield'a academy and stuck with them throughout his career, he & that club would've achieved the exact same success Leeds have?

Think it serves two purposes in their thinking. Firstly it got the likes of McGuire, Sinfield, Burrow etc. to stay in their prime years. Also though to be used to the likes of Ward, Watkins, Singleton etc. now to get them to stick with the club.

Whilst people have concerns with academy products coming through I think Leeds take the approach of they want guys who will be here for the long haul and have long or full careers at Leeds. Whereas at Wigan more night come through but so many have moved on for various reasons after maybe 3/4/5 years, Dom Crosby the latest example.

You got away with it then because you had won naff all for many years. You now have a fanbase who expect success.

That's how it go's.

We don't want to get hammered every week
We just want to win now and again
We just want to have a good cup run
We just want to play well each week
We want to be in with a shout of a trophy
We just want to win a trophy
WE WANT EVERYTHING!!!!!!

TBF you guys are towards the end of that list now. Play the game the right way, look capable of mounting an assault on a trophy, who knows!

you mean we would lose the glory hunters?

Sinfield became successful through being the most professional, hardest training, most driven and committed player Leeds have had. I'm not sure there is such thing as natural ability, in Sinfield's case. He wasn't that big, strong or fast.

As a junior he was considered the most gifted player of his and many other age groups. Every major club wanted to sign him he was that good as a junior.

You don't get to play in the first team at 16 if you don't have a huge amount of natural ability - that is all you have at that age