Yeah well, we tried that...

Actually struggling to think of goal-kicking forwards nowadays. Tickle must be the last one now that Huby doesn't kick any more.

Then there's Cameron Smith and Corey Parker in Australia. Would be happy with either of those...

Doesn't Westerman kick for Hull?

It's Sneyd for them now.

Corey Patterson has done some kicking for Salford with Dobson out.

Westwood has kicked for Warrington.

I'd give peacock a whirl, had a good drop goal attempt last year against cas

he's got potential

I did enjoy that the kick to put Sir Kev into third place on the all time scorers list was as difficult as possible. Somehow fitting.

Lining up said kick

I don't think you can ever "create" a great goal kicker, a natural gift is what makes the great kickers stand out. It's a pointless excercise looking for any of the current lot to fill Sinny's boots, the natural ability is obviously not there, practice will improve any kicker but will only take them so far. Field kicking is totally different, awareness, decision making and other factors come into play, and in that respect, I think given time Sutty could be a lot better than Sinny, as shown by the kick of the season at Saints. None of the current lot will ever hold a candle to Sinny off the tee, Widdop would be the only decent replacement.

After having to wait for a couple of minutes whilst Ken Sio tried to remember his name and what just ran at him. I think that is probably Sinfield's last personal points/appearance milestone that he'll achieve/break now.

Also looking at the highlights the other night. After Cockayne scores his try, Achurch makes the signal with his hands for the ref to go to the screen.....erm Mitch, there isn't a VR at non Sky games mate.

I think where sutcliffe seems to lack is the kicks from the touch line, whilst sinny will probably get half to two thirds of these, I don't think I've seen sutty get one this season (from thegames I've seen).

I do think in the games he's been main kicker we have scored a lot more from out wide. I'm not sure what a standard kicking ratio for a mainline kicker is, but I would imagine that is around 75%, so some way to go, but I think we have to give him a shot in more games as practice can only go so far, but it will be a balancing act with results also very important

I'd disagree with that, I think goal kicking is something that, with enough practice, virtually anyone can do. It just takes a long time and a LOT of practice. I think it's mental skills that help more than anything, perseverance and discipline being 2 of them. Something Sinfield has in spades.
I'd like to see Sutcliffe starting lots of extra practice at goal kicking, as its really the only way to get better. There's no secret to it.

I'd also like to see both Sutcliffe and Hardaker practicing their out of hand kicking. Sutcliffe, for obvious reasons but Hardaker because in the next few seasons we'll be going from 3, at least decent, kickers in Sinfield, McGuire & Burrow (plus Webb in the past) down to just Sutcliffe plus whoever the other half will be. It's useful to have a "3rd kicker" in the squad and Hardaker will probably have to fill that gap. And at the moment his kicking is bloody awful.

Moon is a good out-of-hand kicker, but yes it wouldn't harm to have Hardaker improve. What was Stevie Ward like when he was playing stand off for the U19s?

Moon started as a stand off so his kicking should be OK. I tend to agree with practice developing almost anyone into a kicker - but the mental side of it is just as important. You can have all the technique in the world but if you crumble under pressure you're no use. When you watch a really good kicker they look as confident from the sideline as in front of the posts. Compare that to your average stand-in kicker - most of them clearly don't believe they can score from the sidelines when they are teeing up the ball.

Without doubt practice is essential to develop good technique as in a golf swing. But also as in golf there is the mental strength and natural timing that separate the greats from the pack. The touchline attempts should be at least be near misses as the first clue to a potential star kicker. To date Sutty has not given me confidence in this regard and Hardaker is even further behind and has yet to show a good technique.

Time will tell but a proven goal kicker should be at the top of the CV of any new recruit.

Remember before the days of Hardaker, McShane, Sutcliffe we had a very good replacement goal kicker. He is still in the side now. He used to kick very important kicks from the touchline and was reliable, albeit not as good as Sir Kev .

Burrow! 152 Goals to his name for Leeds. I cannot find an attempts stat to work out the % but i'd bet top dollar its higher than Sutcliffes current %.

Why is he no longer getting a look in?

Because he only plays about 20/30 mins a game. I think we'd scored 4/5 tries before Burrow got on the pitch on Friday.

Also depends whether he wants the job and is still putting in the practice.

If he's not done any goal-kicking practice in training for a long time, you can't just throw him the ball and ask him to do it in games.

At the moment, I'd say there's not much between Sutcliffe and Hardaker when it comes to ability off the tee. Hardaker's kick-offs in particular show that he's got a good deal of technique and ability to put the ball in the right place on a consistent basis. With the right amount of work and application I'm sure both of them can go on to become 75-80% kickers.

In terms of a back-up for field kicking, Leeds are fortunate that they seem to have two centres who are reasonably competent at putting boot to ball. So if pressure comes on the first choice kickers, the option is always there to put it through the hands and let Moon or Watkins get the kick in, something we've done a fair bit of the last couple of seasons. Aiton's also showing a nice short kicking game near the line recently, and seems to have developed something of an understanding with Cuthbertson in particular.

I think Sutcliffe's biggest issue at the moment is in his approach and technique. He can strike a ball perfectly well when he gets it right (home game vs Catalans last year e.g.). But he is very erratic in that regard, and often looks like he is connecting with the "wrong" part of the ball.

The plus side of that (and something he can definitely take from Sinfield) is that this to a large extent can be learned, and practiced to the point of being robotic.

IMO there is a decent kicker in there... if he is willing to put the work in (same applies to Hardaker too)

When you lose such an all time great goal kicker like Sinfield then unless you get really lucky it is always going to be felt a bit. Both Wigan and Saints have struggled to find quality kickers in recent years to replace trusty boots of their own so it wont be easy.

I would like to see us stick with Sutcliffe.He should become a linchpin in this side for years to come and is worth the patience imo.Hopefully he will be putting the time in on the training field and in due course he will up his percentages to the required level, however its a little unfair to expect him to be around the level of one of the best Kickers of a generation in just a few months.

Anyone know what Sinny's percentage was in his first few years.

No idea but I remember at the time thinking he was a massive downgrade from Harris when he took over, I think that was part of what made the 2003 semi final so memorable as he wasn't known at the time for kicking touch line goals.

I could be wrong though.

I may be dreaming, but I seem to remember England RU being in a training camp pre-World Cup 2003 up at West Park Bramhope. If memory serves me right, Sinfield spent a chunk of time with Johnny Wilkinson and his kicking coach, and basically went from strength to strength from there??

[urlhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyleague/article-2046148/The-secrets-Kevin-Sinfield--rugbys-greatest-kicker.html[/url


Old article but worth a quick read

It's well worth any young player wanting to improve their kicking - whether for goal or out of hand - spending some time with Dave Alred, the former kicking coach to Jonny Wilkinson and now working with Ireland's Jonny Sexton and Bath/England's George Ford.

Going forward, a few days at Alred's consultancy rates might end up being one of the best investments Leeds can make.