At the time I couldn't be bothered picking them up on it BUT after the last three games, I feel compelled to raise the matter. Some tool on this board, and you know who you are, suggested that Rob Burrow offers NOTHING to this team.........Hang your head sunshine!

Yes you are quite right to raise this. There were several others too who were too quick to write off RB and his unique skill set with their "proper hooker" mantra. Aiton had a fine season and was a real positive for Leeds but when he was injured his contribution, though strong, was totally overblown. For some he was the only reason for Cuthbertson and the teams's success.

When we hit the post Wembley blues the reason given by some was the absence of Aiton without giving thought to the absence of Burrow in these three games (plus Watkins & Hardaker in 2)

So will these same critics now acknowledge the crucial role Burrow has played, as a hooker, kicker and 80 minute player, in winning all our matches since his return from injury?

The silence from the keyboard warriors is deafening!

He has come back from injury and played some fantastic rugby but he still isn't a hooker. If we had a hooker ,Burrow could have been just as effective from the bench without forcing our centres to defend much further in field.

He's a very good player that has done very well covering.

Glad to say i wasn't one of them



Have to say though, long term i still think we are better off with a traditional 9, however i never really had a doubt Burrow would step up for the last few games this year when we needed him to, the guy is a true big game player and has proved it time and again.

Positions aside I think when comes to the big games any team in SL would want Burrow in their 17.

Burrow has been very good since coming back from injury and has helped us find a way to win our last three games. That doesn't alter the fact that we've played our best rugby this year with a traditional hooker defending the middle and Burrow coming off the bench.

I've critisised Burrow, and at the time it was justified, however his current form has been excellent. People are allowed to be wrong about things you know.

His kicking game on Saturday was fantastic, but he wasn't alone on that front all our kickers were on form, often finding the big gaps and giving our chasers time.

So you weren't wrong. You expressed an opinion based on what you saw at the time. That's neither right nor wrong, it's your opinion.

Although opinions do at times seem to be verboten in the eyes of some posters, unless they collude entirely with their own.

The statements I am referring to were not opinions about form or position and in any event, everyone has a right to an opinion. However, if you make a statement and that statement is not only wrong but more than disrespectful to a very good player, don't be surprised if someone pulls you up on it.

Someone, and they know who they are, stated categorically that Burrow was finished and offered nothing to the Leeds team. That may have been their opinion then and, although I suspect very much otherwise, it may still be.

R E S P E C T.......it was due then and still is now.

So when does an opinion become a statement? And who defines which players we are or aren't allowed to talk in negative terms about?

Some people were questioning Ryan Hall's form at the back end of the season and speculating whether he should be rested. Was that disrespectful to a player who has scored 200 tries for the club?

Some people have questioned what Josh Walters offered to the side at various times during the season, but presumably he's fair game because he hasn't "earned" the "respect" that makes you immune from criticism?

I didn't realise I had drawn a distinction between opinion or statement. In fact, I didn't.

Questioning form is not suggesting that the player is worthless to the club.

There is a way to get your point across, without being disrespectful to the individual concerned. [iIn my opinion[/i, it is even more important to do so, when that individual has achieved so much in the past.

After the GF wins in 2008 and 09 this board was awash with retrospective quotes being dragged up and individual posters being slated. It took the shine off for me. Let's leave it there. Everyone has an opinion but we all want Leeds to win every game.

Or not, according to some.

Agreed, feel the same. People have their opinions on players. It's a message board. The constant d!ck measuring and point scoring is very boring

Last I looked this site is called a forum where posted messages or in many cases just statements can be challenged hopefully with good debate and humor. It would be very boring and dangerous if messages and statements were not free to be challenged particularly those unbalanced ones that are very critical of players/coaches unable cannot defend themselves. I assume you agree with this as you have just challenged the comment on this thread.

IMO the OP has every right to raise his objection to what I regard as OTT dissing of Burrow in earlier threads. So why is it wrong to revisit a previous difference of opinion when new evidence comes to light?

This is no more about dick measuring or points scoring than the original difference of opinion was? Different opinions and discussions are exactly what these forums are about. I have no problem with robust argument or indeed opposite opinions
but we all have to accept that none of us get it right every time. Of course none of us like to be reminded when we got it wrong.

However some critics IMO overstep the mark both in the manner of their criticism of a player or coach and also in the offensive way they conduct an argument eg: when stumped for a reply they resort to personal insults to try and denigrate another's opinion which is a form of bullying that can put less thick skinned fans off further contribution.

Burrow was rubbished by a certain critic as were opinions to the contrary so now it is only fair to restore some balance when Robbie has produced a succession of excellent performances in the end of season big matches to totally disprove the specific criticism of him.

You can call it dick measuring or points scoring if you like but I regard it as producing further relevant evidence to perhaps conclude the argument and correct a wrong.

There has been plenty of time and opportunity for this particular critic to give due credit to Burrow and revise his judgement in the light of recent events .......and while he's at it he could do the same regarding McDermott. But true to form he has not, as far as I have seen so far!

And well done Juan, on completely proving Ferdy's point while attempting to rebut it.

An opinion is just that. An opinion. It's no more "right" or "wrong" than yours or anyone else's. Opinion is not fact. Not even yours, regardless of how many stats or other measures you throw out to support it.

Other people think, feel and react differently to you. Rather than attempting to convert them to your way of thinking with a zealotry the Spanish Inquisition would have been proud of, learn to take a deep breath and accept it for what it is. Just an opinion.

I can't believe what i'm reading here, well I can actually but still..... People who've written Leeds & certain Leeds players off all year whilst repeatedly making snarky comments about those who had faith in the squad are now getting precious when taken to task over it by those same people









Classic Southstander.

Can't argue against that - sometimes you just have to admit that you get it wrong - it happens nobody gets it right all the time

I was wrong, I predicted Leeds would finish 4th at the start of the year. Even the blind optimists didn't see this one coming

I think you have missed the point. It isn't about opinion, it is a simple case of having some respect for what a person has earned by demonstrative effort and achievement in the past. Simply suggesting that player has lost form or perhaps should consider retiring is a perfectly acceptable viewpoint. However, when that view is expressed and includes belittlement (no pun intended) or is dismissive, I think it should be addressed. All I have done, is translate what Rob communicated from the pitch into words.

Interestingly, the poster I was originally referring to has stayed well clear of this thread, which quite frankly, if you are so offended, so should you. That's another beauty of a forum, you aren't forced to read it.

No surprise to see your contribution here as someone who argued against the new contract awarded to Burrow earlier this year.

I fail to see your logic. For someone who is suggesting an opinion cannot be wrong, you seem to spend a lot of time trying to make out my opinion is wrong! Particularly when there is a danger that your own old opinions maybe also be exposed to scrutiny.

Here are two opinions that were posted by different people about Rob Burrow when he was awarded a new contract.

1. [i"He is of no relevance at all to this team anymore, purely picked on sentimental. Not worthy of his selection anymore"[/i

2. "[iBurrow has not been a starter much this season but I am sure he will once more prove his worth as the season progresses.[/i"

You say an opinion can be neither right or wrong without consideration that opinions can be biased or delivered as unkind statements. In this case history has at least proven which of the above two had the more accurate judgement.

i think rb played well last 2 games but v diff to when he won harry sunderland award and the team needed him to be.

as for kicking game we've often kicked better in finals than rest of season right back to turning big les all game in 04

That is a very good point and one that I made to a friend the other day. We have had far more structured/organised and successful kicking games in the various finals we have played in love the last ten years.

I would add that Burrow has been one of our better kickers in those big games, particularly out of dummy half.