www1.skysports.com/rugby-league/ ... 6/9067929/ The front Row looks set to be a big concern for us in the coming seasons if it isn't already.Our go forward has been almost the sole responsibility of one man and he is the elder statesman of the team.Without his efforts last season i dread to think where we would have finished on the ladder.So its Good to read that Achurch seems to be finding his feet and looks set for building on what was an average first season, although he was injured for a large part to be fair to him.Singleton looked a class act in the second half of the year and if he builds on that i could see him being in the frame for international honours come the end of the year. With Kylie and JP almost certainly in their last year, these two will become vital players come 2015 as i see Achurch making the step up to the front row by then. That still leaves us needing to find at least one top class front rower by the end of next year to atleast soften the blow of losing a great like JP.Lets hope GH is on the case.We have the best three-quarter line in the league but it will struggle to make an impact playing behind a beaten pack in reverse.

www1.skysports.com/rugby-league/ ... 6/9067929/ The front Row looks set to be a big concern for us in the coming seasons if it isn't already.Our go forward has been almost the sole responsibility of one man and he is the elder statesman of the team.Without his efforts last season i dread to think where we would have finished on the ladder.So its Good to read that Achurch seems to be finding his feet and looks set for building on what was an average first season, although he was injured for a large part to be fair to him.Singleton looked a class act in the second half of the year and if he builds on that i could see him being in the frame for international honours come the end of the year. With Kylie and JP almost certainly in their last year, these two will become vital players come 2015 as i see Achurch making the step up to the front row by then. That still leaves us needing to find at least one top class front rower by the end of next year to atleast soften the blow of losing a great like JP.Lets hope GH is on the case.We have the best three-quarter line in the league but it will struggle to make an impact playing behind a beaten pack in reverse.

We should have started the transition before now imo we have let Amor go for nowt ,lost our best 2 FR juniors and still have kirke making far too many matchday teams than his performances merit.
I also think it was an error giving Kylie another year although i hope to be proved wrong but imo 2 props are needed & 1 asap.
Hopefully Bailey will step up more and Singleton will continue to improve wrt Achurch he was signed as an offloading BR and should stay as such.

I agree with everything except the bit on Bailey. He has had 10 years to make that step up that deep down we all know he has. Two good games a season isn't enough. In reality, there is as much a question about him as there is about Kirke. Hopefully being his testimonial year, Bailey will push it to what he has in him.

You are right,We will certainly need two.My point at the end being one of them has to be top class for us to continue competing for honours.If we could get two at that level then great but its hard to see too many being available.Regards Kylie, I agreed with the deal at the time but in hindsight the way he finished the season its hard to not come to the conclusion he is way past it now.

Achurch has the size/Frame to step up to the Front Row and could do a good job there im sure.I do realise this was not the reason he was originaly signed but as we seem to have a glut of Back rowers and an uncertain Front Row, it could be the way to go IMO.

With the loss of Yates through injury and Moore released....our front row is much more stretched already than it was last year. Which is a worry.

I expect more development for the exciting Singleton ...but that may be counter balanced with not knowing if Kylie still has it to go another year.

Amor was a case of wrong place, wrong time.

Leeds had much better options ahead of him in the side, and he didn't do himself any favours with a headless chicken display on debut IIRC.

When he starts making Dream Teams, I'll get misty eyed over him not staying at Leeds. Until then, I'm ambivelent.

I'm intrigued to know what the club are supposed to have done to persuade Baldwinson not to take up an offer from the Warriors though. Offer him more money? Make him promises about first team playing time that he might not merit? Relocate the club to Auckland?

Or the more relevant questions. Include him when he does merit it? Show him there is a progression plan? Ensure your contracts are in place in good time?

On Baldwinson,
1. Don't insult him with a derisory offer
2. Don't renew contracts for players well passed their sell by date
3. Show him a succession plan that outline his part
4. Give him game time - you will never know whether he is upto it without giving him extended game time. We are more than happy to accept long term dips in form of senior players.

AG-Sal and Gotcha have answered with enough detail re-Baldwinson onto Amor over the last 3yrs he's been ahead of Kirke ,Moore and well on a par with Bailey whilst playing for a team of misfits and the unloved and was a cornerstone of the pack that took them into the play-offs that fro me proves his worth.

1. Was the offer derisory in terms of what offers GH has handed out to others Baldwinson's age? Or was it actually similar to what others got at that stage of their careers at Leeds and only really derisory when compared to the NZ Warriors offer?
2. Why not? What happens if Baldwinson stayed and picked up the same early career injuries that the likes of Ward, Watkins, JJB. BJB etc have suffered.
3. Maybe tell Ward, Watkins, BJB, Hall, Ablett, Bailey, McGuire, Burrow, Sinfield, JJB to bring all their 43 GF winners rings into training and show him that succession plan at the club regarding academy players making their way into the first team. Point out the likes of the older ones and say if you do make it here you won't be dumped in a flash for the next promising young thing who might not even live up to the hype and your service will be valued over the years.
4. He was only 18 this year, we've been a bit timid regarding giving Singleton more games the last 2 years but can hardly say Baldwinson could've been in any sooner. Had he not signed to NZW then he might've gotten those appearances that Foster got instead this year.

Not going to rehash the Baldwinson debate, but I'll be surprised if he plays anything other than U20s next season, and anything other than U20s/reserve grade the year after. He was never going to be a front row solution for next year.

What happens with Baldwinson at Warriors or thereafter has no relevance to what happened or might have had at Leeds.

Do Paramedics earn the same as doctors? Does a an hairdresser earn the same as a stylist? Does a sub teacher earn as much as full employed teacher?

None have relevance, but neither does what other rugby players earn at the same age. Not all players are the same level regardless of same age. Some require a premium based on talent and potential.

1. He said he was offered 12k - if this is true that is derisory in any industry never mind for one of the most talented youngsters in the sport. Why stay?
2. What does the re-signing of over the hill players say to young players - it says my opportunities will be very limited for at least 12 months if not longer. It also shows the mentality of the club - the acceptance of mediocrity.
3. They can bring their medals in with confidence their place is safe in the side regardless of how well they play - ask Brad Singleton what happened to him at the business end of last season. A half fit JJB who had not played well for months was preferred to one of the form players in the side. Bailey who had been poor all year also got selected ahead of him!!
4. Baldwinson has seen McDermott in action and maybe he didn't actually like what he saw - who knows, all that we do know is a very talented youngster is no longer at the club - playing in a position we are in need of strengthening.

Translation - You don't have a clue whether it was derisory. You're just guessing for the sake of your argument. Let the fog knitting commence folks.

I see, the desperation argument from Printer coming out. Doesn't even remember his own question.

Let me remind you of the question you asked, and which I answered.





You brought up the comparison argument, nobody else. You got an answer. Now grow up.

Baldwinson had great promise, but nothing more than that at this stage and could not have been expected to play many first team games in the front row next year had he stayed. But his mind and pocket were elsewhere so this rather shows his the heart wasn't really at Headingley and he lacked that burning desire to play for Leeds, an essential ingredient in a potential Leeds first team youngster which I rate just as high as his skill set. All factors that the management would have taken into consideration.

With plenty of competition for back row places this year I see Delaney continuing to undertake the props go forward duties despite the number on his back.

Ignoring the same tedious Amor/Baldwinson debate. It will be interesting to see how Leeds manage the transition of the likes of JP and Kylie. Singleton is the obvious successor to JP from within the squad but apart from that I'm not sure who else there is. Achurch looks like a wide running back rower to me. So unless Delaney moves up to prop it looks like we will have to bring someone from outside the club. I'm sure everyone has people they would like to see Leeds sign, but I doubt many of those are realistic in the current climate.

Probably a couple of years off the first team yet, but big things expected of Sam Hallas.

If you look around SL, there aren't that many elite young front rowers you would be happy to pay a fee for and who their clubs would be willing to sell.

The ones in the NRL are going to be on salaries that even a well off SL club like Leeds could compete with.

So you're potentially looking at "projects" from the Championship/Champ One, or developing your own talent.

The current Leeds pack is dependent on Peacock to a similar extent as the team were dependent on Harris before he departed to RU. Along with Sinfield he's a player that we simply can't afford to have missing for a big game. There isn't another player in the current squad who matches his belief and will-to-win, defensive work-rate and general go-forward.

Working with what we've got, this leaves us with:

Leuluai. Also on the way out; only capable of matching Peacock's contribution in short stints.

Bailey. Theoretically in the prime age group for a prop forward, but has never asserted a genuine claim to be better than number 3 prop at Leeds. Shows glimpses of promise beyond winning valuable penalties but ultimately he fills a supplementary role.

Singleton. Definitely looks to have the heart of a prop and still quite young. Hopefully he'll get more game time and starts in the first 13.

Achurch. Looks to me like a player who would improve given more regular involvement with the first-team. No doubt if he does fulfil his potential it won't be long before he's back in the NRL though.

Kirke. Good old dependable Kirke! Never going to set the world on fire but seemed to improve last season. He's not a long-term solution though - can't see the logic in keeping him at Peacock's age, for example.

Yates. Know nothing about him but it seems that he's effectively been brought in as a cheaper version of Richard Moore. We can always hope he'll be a Chris Hill though...

Delaney. Not a prop as such, but not so long ago he wasn't a forward... Provided Leeds don't flog him too hard and give him time to recover from his injuries, he should be able to step into Peacock's shoes in the short term. Not sure he's big enough though, but much preferable to playing JJB at prop! Looks a bit like Paul Gallen too.

So, taking out Peacock and Leuluai, that's a lot of future burden on the shoulders of Delaney, Achurch and Singleton, none of whom have proven that they can consistently take the team forward on a regular basis from prop. This isn't going to happen unless they are given regular game time either, while we squeeze the last drops of quality from JP and KL.

Surely the club will look to sign bona fide replacements for JP and KL when they eventually do go. I think it is fair to say that the club has tried to bring in replacements in recent years, but for different reasons these haven't worked out e.g. Thackray, Eastwood, Cross etc. Surely Peacock's wage will be sufficient to entice someone decent - hopefully the club are making inquiries about appropriate players already!

I was surprised not to see him as part of the England youth teams for next year. Thought he was much higher regarded in the game.

I don't know if it is just Wakey fans adding two and two together and getting five, but heard from a few that the guy they signed for next year, Anderson is it? only signed a one year contract as Leeds are watching him next year with a view to taking Kylies place in 2015.

Not sure of the age groups now, but if England Youth are Under 16s then he's not going to be eligible this year and it's a big step up to England Academy which are Under 19s?

Scott Anderson is only on a one-year deal which seems a bit odd. 70 first grade games in an 8-year career though doesn't fill you with confidence.

He's also good mates with Ben Cross, so I can't see Leeds coming with a glowing report somehow. Of the two, Matt Ryan would have probably been the more interesting addition and probably has the better pedigree.

Under 18's I think. But I think a lot of them are quite established.

Maybe this will give a bit of a clue [urlhttp://www.sportinglife.com/rugby-league/news/article/480/9068468/mcdermott-backs-duo-to-shine[/url
Lets hope BM believes in what he is saying to the rest of us.

We've f*cked up.

We'll pay the price partly this season but mainly next season.