Firstly Saints thoroughly deserved their win - they scored twice as many points as us which was a far reflection of the game IMO. We did well to stay as close as we did they were by far the dominant side.

Lomax was my MOM he controlled the game pity our half backs - Burrow especially - failed to turn up on the night, Sinfield was poor again, his knock on at the scrum was typical of his night.

Our attack lacks any structure at all - especially when we move the ball left to right, and Webb is an enigma - the only person who knows what Webb is going to do is Webb - he had a stinker tonight.

Senior is so far passed his best as to laughable - and this is beginning to rub off on Hall who looks very vulnerable under the high ball.

Saints are too good a side to play Hardaker and Watkins together their inexperience was going to be exposed and Saints exploited it.

Too many senior players in a comfort zone - JJB, Burrow, Ali, Kirke, Webb, Senior this needs to change - culturally their are issues at the club and a change of coach or a change of personnel is required.

On a positive - Ablett, McShane and Burgess were excellent tonight but like any business when you stop investing there is only one way you are going and that is backwards.

From a Saints fan POV...

Think you may be a little harsh on Sinfield, I thought he did his best but struggled with a lack of support around him.

Webb was dire, yet somehow still manages to make you panic every time the ball gets near him within 20 - 30 metres of the line. Still an infinitely better attacker than he is a defender.

Thought Hardaker did really well, looked a threat despite some terrible service. Watkins [ican[/i be a great, but we always run the risk of expecting our potential stars to be the finished article and therefore bag every mistake. He needs the 1st team experience to become the complete player, but he'll make some cock ups in the meantime. We have the same issue with the likes of Gaskell.

Didn't think your pack stood up to the test, and that's what cost you. With a Barry Mac and a Morley out there, it would have been a different game (unless one or both were sent off early doors

).

I was very impressed with McShane.

I must agree, Saints were more deserved of the 2 pts tonight, but one question which has been on a lot peoples lips lately.... Just how much longer has Brian McDermott got?? we played 90% shoddy again tonight!!!

Two very ordinary looking sides, Leeds look less and less convincing and whilst I prefer 'entertaining' to the crap served up last season (remember Wembley) there's nothing entertaining about seeing your side consistently running around like headless chickens with all the defensive authority of Twickenham Ladies Under 12s.

Luckily the rest of the League look nearly as bad so we may still be in the top 4 or 5 come the end of the season. We are bound to be better when some of the regulars return but by that time the season may well be effectively over for us.

Wigan may well dominate the season (I really hope not - smug & self satisfied doesn't begin to do it justice) but having watched the 'classic' they served up last night I fear we are slipping towards the kind of sterile crowd killing Rugby last witnessed in the early 60's which lead to the introduction of the 4 tackle rule.

Interesting comments. I thought that we looked poorly organised and structured tonight, not for the first time this season. We don't go forward in the pack enough, which leads to the halves getting no time on the ball to call the play and the opposition defence is organised. We were offloading but with no one coming onto the ball, so it was just side to side passing and asking no questions.

On an individual front:

Webb tried hard but made lots of errors.
Hardaker had a great debut showing fantastic handling skills.
Watkins tried hard but also made errors.
Senior is stealing money at the moment, going missing in defence and attack.
Hall is really suffering from not knowing what his centre is doing most of the time.

The halves were both behind a beaten pack so struggled.
Sinfield looked better than Burrow who was anonymous.

The forwards looked disorganised, with no pack leader or enforcer.
JJB tried hard, and was unlucky with the Moore call, but was dumb for the knock down in the build up to the Wellens try.
Buderus defended strongly, tackling all over the park, but did little of note with the ball. Kirke had a better game, winning a number of collisions and putting some good tackles in.
Hauraki is an enigma, you keep expecting him to do something, but he fails to deliver.
Lautiiti is not posing any real threat with the ball at the moment.
Ablett was very busy, without being particularly effective.

Burgess was the best prop for Leeds, making good metres and strong tackles
Cross is another who was anonymous having no effect with our without the ball
Clarkson is willing and effective but needs to start.
McShane was very good tonight, great try, and good ball steal.

you looked badly organised tonight IMO but Saints didn't allow you to play - as Wellens said after the game,they were determined to put on a show after last weeks embarassment - you lot will bounce back,as usual...

Agree with most of the above - on Sinfield he got the ball in 3/4 of the 6 sets and failed to create virtually anything - on Burrow less said the better - the last play of the game summed up his night.

Thought your quarter back played well tonight, didn't deserve to be on the losing side!

Leeds conceed 30 points again at home! Simpley not good enough.

I agree only 3 0ther clubs had more points against.
However, we have scored more points than any other club.
It's alright playing this flambouyant, cavalier, entertaining football when you're 20 points in front in a match.
I'm not writing McDermott off just yet but surely he should realise it's back to the basics boys.

Sinfield is not a half back though. He's a positional kicking loose forward. It's one thing to take on the kicking duties when you have 2 line runners at half back. Now he's having to do alot more. To be fair to Sinfield I thought he had little if no help from Burrows in any department. Pretty similar to Gaskell last week. He got all the flack as he was the only one trying and so made errors as well as tries.

It seams it's easier to get away with being annonomous than it is to try in a side not flying at the top.

I agree about Sinny perhaps, if Lee Smith is back next week, try him and full back and Webb at stand off?

My grandad had a saying that sums up the game for me: a good side would have thrashed the pair of 'em.

Burrow was very poor tonight and I can only remember him once in the game. As said above it's hard for backs playing behind a pack that is always beaten this year and as we are desparate to play entertaining rugby we throw pointless off loads and run around with no structure. We need to be so much more controlled.

Would be nice if we had someone in the youth system who could push burrow for his place

i dont like to say this but im actually starting to agree with stevo leeds need to start getting back to basics and stop throwing all these fancy balls all over the place its worked for us in the past but at the moment i cant name a player who can through an accurate pass

completely agree that two poor sides out there last night, but a return to back to basics is in order. Defensively all over the shop, we dont look like we can defend a set in our own 20 at the mo.

I'm going to watch the game again on Sky later this morning and see if there are any positives, apart from the encouraging displays of our younger players.

A serious question though....does anyone now not have serious doubts about the tactics being employed by the coaching staff, and the ability of BMD and co to get a grip and produce a winning and competitive side?

Again too much possession given to the opposition and no pressure applied in attack. Unfortunately Watkins is prone to "push" things too much and guilty of turning over too much ball. He just needs to be told to tame it down a little.

More of a concern is the lack of forward power (Burgess surprisingly excepted based on his recent showings last season) and the abysmal performance from Burrow. Is there nobody in the reserves who can be given his opportunity ? McShane did enough to retain a place in the 17...is it not worth giving the lad a go at 7 if Buderus keeps his place ??

Have always admired Burrow, but he now seems completely devoid of any ideas ....Lauititi too sadly seems way past his best. Cross is a waste of money. Why does the club persist with Kirke ? (we now there are good forwards in the reserves). As for Senior......ugghhh !!!



Back to basics lads for gawd's sake. Defend and complete sets...stop the fancy stuff until you have established some dominance.

I think it is a serious question, worryingly BMD in his after match press conference "thought we had taken steps forward defensively", do me a favour 30 points conceded at home IMO is not taking steps forward defensively.

well I've watched the match again and there's nothing much to add what has already been said. The worrying aspect is, after listening to McDermott after match interview is the only way out is hard work (which I don't obect to) and more of the same. Ostrich syndrome????

Whilst i agree we were defensively poor for their trys and some individual performances did'nt match up just what do you expect a 6 and 7 to do behind a beaten pack?
As for Watkins' errors lets not forget he's a kid still learning and naturally a LC.
Also just watch how awful the left side defence squared up and how much longer can Senior be 1st choice in his position?
Again i'll also add it's ridiculous to be speculating over the coaches future especially as not 1 of this squad are his signings and he hasn't had a fully fit squad to choose from yet.

I think the time has come to get in some competition in the halves because Rob Burrow really is offering less and less each season. I think teams have got wise to him and whilst always dangerous with his speed, he does not really offer a creative side to his game, and as he gets older and loses his pace, what he will offer then is questionable. I think he is currently an automatic choice on his past alone.

Whats the alternative? I guess we are upto salary cap so cant buy anyone, dont know of any academy prospects so I think he is the only choice

I think that is a problem in that he has no real threat to his position and can almost be certain of a starting spot. What about putting mcshane at 7? He has the advantage of a kicking game

The worrying thing for Leeds is Mac does have a plan B but its worse than plan A -He is useless. Thank Christ we got rid of him