I've always taken any pronouncements from Darth with a pinch of salt, but recently, well there isn't enough salt to cover it.

Close working relationships with NRL teams.

Players definitely "not" leaving.

Ducking out of planning meetings with the council.

Southstands last game ever! Every other week.

What on earth is going on?

Nay I don't know either .We never get the full story as regards the south stand all we've heard is from GH nothing from LCC planning committee . Is it down to not being granted or some other reason? The spin doctor for Segayaro spun a great line about why he wanted to stay at Leeds and how much he loved the British game ,it suited his style

I wish i could tell you.

One thing is for certain, there are far more questions than answers at the minute and the plot could well thicken a great deal in the not too distant future, a start next season anything like resembling this the CEO will have some major decisions to make, ones that could majorly impact the club for a few years to come.

Quote ="Ex-Swarcliffe Rhino"I've always taken any pronouncements from Darth with a pinch of salt, but recently, well there isn't enough salt to cover it. Close working relationships with NRL teams. Players definitely "not" leaving. Ducking out of planning meetings with the council. Southstands last game ever! Every other week. What on earth is going on?'" I posted something similar on another thread........ If recent reports from Gary and the club regarding the ground redevelopment and that the Boxing day game was the Last ever game for the current south stand before it was bull dozed www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... -1-8211568 also that the club had previously urged all SS season ticket holders to relocate asap as the ground capacity would be cut www.therhinos.co.uk/news/2017-se ... -now-25530#.WDnyKfmLS70 Despite rumours which said that the club knew full well that their wasn't a cat in hells chance of the redevelopment happening for 2017 I predict that cats and dogs will still be ting on both pieces of land during 2017 and that no building work will begin We also had this re-assurance regarding Chicko's transfer speculation Quote Hetherington commented, “There has been interest from NRL clubs in James and one club in particular but I have explained to them that Leeds Rhinos are not prepared to consider a release or transfer so that is the end of the matter.'" IMO the outcome of both of these issues will no doubt paint Mr Hetherington as someone who's word cannot be trusted any longer I foresee that he could be in for a rough time in 2017 IF things dont go well on the field I expect that an undisclosed transfer fee will be paid to the club for Chicko's release,but as a way of compensation,that a ground breaking club partnership between the Rhinos and the Sharks will also be announced

Quote ="Ex-Swarcliffe Rhino"I've always taken any pronouncements from Darth with a pinch of salt, but recently, well there isn't enough salt to cover it. Close working relationships with NRL teams. Players definitely "not" leaving. Ducking out of planning meetings with the council. Southstands last game ever! Every other week. What on earth is going on?'" I posted something similar on another thread........ If recent reports from Gary and the club regarding the ground redevelopment and that the Boxing day game was the Last ever game for the current south stand before it was bull dozed www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... -1-8211568 also that the club had previously urged all SS season ticket holders to relocate asap as the ground capacity would be cut www.therhinos.co.uk/news/2017-se ... -now-25530#.WDnyKfmLS70 Despite rumours which said that the club knew full well that their wasn't a cat in hells chance of the redevelopment happening for 2017 I predict that cats and dogs will still be ting on both pieces of land during 2017 and that no building work will begin We also had this re-assurance regarding Chicko's transfer speculation Quote Hetherington commented, “There has been interest from NRL clubs in James and one club in particular but I have explained to them that Leeds Rhinos are not prepared to consider a release or transfer so that is the end of the matter.'" IMO the outcome of both of these issues will no doubt paint Mr Hetherington as someone who's word cannot be trusted any longer I foresee that he could be in for a rough time in 2017 IF things dont go well on the field I expect that an undisclosed transfer fee will be paid to the club for Chicko's release,but as a way of compensation,that a ground breaking club partnership between the Rhinos and the Sharks will also be announced

There is no truth any more, only opinion. FWIW without major surgery we are looking at up to 5 years of transition...

The last 12mths have been woeful on/off the field from the failure to recruit the right quality for 2016 throw in the 101 excuses during the season along with the lies we've heard since & it does raise serious ?'s about how the Club has been run following a history making 2015.
We all know GH has plenty of previous denying interest in players before actually signing them but throw in the Hardaker & Segeyaro denials when many had heard/knew already both wanted out its taking the p!$$ somewhat imo.
Even now all this posturing is wasting time get rid of JS he simply doesn't want to be here.
I think its a huge 12mths for the CEO & Coach time will tell if either can stop the farce & get us back on track but i am losing faith in GH & wrt Mc.D stick a fork in him he's done.

I think we'll look back on 2016 as a disaster in more ways than one. the season itself was dreadful, but the fact that we didn't even start looking properly at recruitment in key positions is absolutely ridiculously poor planning. We look like having gone from an international full back and international quality at hooker, with question marks over halfbacks, to question marks over 1,6, 7 and 9. Never mind long-term I'd say that's rubbish in the short term.

I stated on the thread about the ground redevelopment that I thought GH had reached his level of incompetence, this is just another issue in a growing list that suggests the CEO is out of depth and needs to be pensioned off for the good of the long term future of the club

He just sounds more silly with every pronouncement

Gotta be honest GH is way out of depth....i mean other than helping save the club, being CEO over 7 SL titles, 3 challenge cups, 3 wcc, turning a debt making business into a million pound profit making business, forming an outstanding foundation which benefits thousands of people in the city, building the carnegie stand what has he done for us???

Seriously guys some of these comments are ridiculous.

Trust GH we will come thru this. May take a year or 2 but weve talented kids coming thru and they need to be given a chance which the club is doing.

Nobody is disputing what he has done in the past it is what he might do in the future - this is a club that is going backwards. The squad is as weak as it has been for years I would hazard guess that the likes of Leigh, Castleford, Catalans and Hull will be closer to the cap than Leeds. Under investment in the product you are selling gives your competitors the opportunity to leave you behind.

It would not take much for a £1m profit business to turn into £1m loss business and as the refurbishment of the stand has shown the club is hardly awash with reserves. It is very unlikely the club with have the success on the field and the revenue it brings for the foreseeable future so the chances of a downward spiral are greater than a period of sustained growth.

We might have some talented kids but none are as good as the kids that sustained the team through the golden period - I don't see another Kevin Sinfield, Danny McGuire, Ablett, Hall or Watkins. Let's be honest we have a huge problem at hooker now and no youngster even on the horizon in that position. I would suggest signing the likes of Ormondroyd and Aston would suggest the talent coming through isn't of a suitable quality at the moment?

Something just isn't right?

So hes out of his depth because we might go backwards???? Ever thought we might go forward too???

Lets just not panic and trust in the best CEO weve ever had.

"The post-truth according to Gaz H" would have been a more appropriate thread title.

I'm not bagging GH here, as the guy really did build a successful career, but the key word in your post above is "helping". People get too lost in the roles of people, and simply forget about the absolute main reason we were saved, and that was Caddick. If anybody seriously believes Hetherington could have done any of what we did on his own then they seriously do not know anything about either indidvidual.

That said, the rugby opertaion of the club was down to Hetherington as he had the knowledge in that area and expertise, and built his team. Without Caddick though, he couldn't have done any of it. Trouble is his ideas have run there course, and it needs younger minds.

The way the club is going now, is exactly what people have forseen on here for the last few years, it was so blindinly obvious. But whilst any club management, and that is any club, can continue to take advantage of gullible supporters this is what happens. I bet they never expected the wrong choices though to have such an effect.

The recent history would suggest the club is going backwards - one GF in 4 years compared to 3 in the previous 4 years - how do you suggest you turn it around? The club doesn't appear to have the ability to fund the borrowing to develop its place of business?

The very essence of the product i.e. the team is weaker than it has been for years and the quality of academy product coming through is also at a very low point. It now appears to going into the forthcoming season with a hooker of any quality/experience - one of the two most important position in the modern game.

As for 2016 - the less said about that the better

So I am unclear from this way you think GH will turn it around?

The only way this will give a positive outcome is if other teams slow faster than Leeds?

Given where we are & what we've just gone through in 2016 id say there's more chance of abject failure than success.
Also yes GH has played a huge role in our success building a Trophy rich legacy but the brutal honesty is that formula hasn't worked/needs adjusting now.
I aren't demanding or expecting Trophy wins but this Club should be top 4 minimum & the recruitment etc since 2015 has fallen way short of previous standards.
Now yes the transition was always going to happen & certainly never gonna be easy but lets get this right you don't run a Rolls Royce smoothly for over a decade then start buying parts from the scrappers & expect the same pristine ride.

Caddick's money was without doubt the key. Without the injection of cash, nothing could have been achieved. However, I've also heard that very little club debt has actually been paid off over the tenure of the ownership and a major debt liability still remains in existence. The sale of green belt land for aspirational, neoliberal, yuppie housing development was to address more than just the redevelopment of two stands at Headingley.

On the playing side, the club benefitted from the junior development structures which were put in place earlier by the likes of Dog Laughton and Dean Bell. Laughton in particular always had a good eye for emerging or potential talent. Wasn't it him who spotted a young kid from the Oldham area called Sinfield?

Interesting times ahead, and particularly so if Caddick wants out.

True and I don't think for a second anyone would say it was a one man effort. On the flip side of what you've put I don't see anyone else like Caddick taking any of the stick GH is.



So blindingly obvious that people predicted preseason we were done for several seasons in a row. Let's not forget quite a few of the keyboard CEO's on here would've started ripping the team apart after 2010 and every season thereafter especially at the end of 2014. That they didn't brought us several more trophies whilst who knows what would've happened had we followed the paths some on here wanted to take.....I'm sure in their minds the changes they would've made would've been amazing and guaranteed successful but we really don't know that.

I'm hearing allsorts of conflicting stories about the club and its financies I don't know what to believe.

It took 9 years minimum to build that side that won the GF in 2004. Might be similar to do it all again.

"I've heard"





Always makes me laugh when fans discuss a clubs finances and what they've "heard", when the financials statements are free and available for all to see on Companies House. Also what you describe at 'major' is subjective and doesn't necessarily mean doom and gloom. Plenty of people have big mortgages, 80%-90% LTV in some cases, yet they're manageable. I assume you're just trying to stir it, as usual



A quick look at the latest Balance Sheet (Aug 2015) shows a net asset position of £2.3m, pretty much the same as 2014, minus the small P&L loss. The creditors position is £4.6m owed, versus a debtors position of £5.7m.

Jumping back to 2008 the BS is in a net liability position of £79k, so financially Leeds are in a much healthier position now.

Actually it only took 2 years to build a top side, we got to the GF in 98 and won the CC in 99.

But, if we want anther period of sustained success (if that is possible) then we need to revert back to investment in the academy and a reserve team, which can be supplemented by the odd signing of quality.

Caddick is just an investor would you expect the shareholders in M&S to get the same stick as the CEO and board of directors for continued under performance? Caddick would have left GH in charge of all matters re running the club on a day to day basis.

2015 masked what has been a gradual decline in the squad/academy output since 2012. As discussed previously 2015 was a perfect storm where a number of things came together to deliver that outcome.

The point for me is that GH seems to be getting himself into pickles that a well thought out well presented CEO shouldn't be getting into. There was no need to promise the SS until it was cleared - the planning process is known and the meeting open to the public. If he didn't think the well to do of North Leeds weren't going to object he didn't do his homework. Suggesting the boxing day game was the last chance to watch a game from the historic stand was just plain stupid - he knew it wasn't true and that it would come back and bite him.

He had no need to say anything about Segayaro until he had it sorted and under control. He must have known from the meeting with his agent he wanted out - he again seems to have been had over like he was with the Robbie Farah?

It's the period of sustained success that I was referring to. Those sides in 98 and 99 had very few players that formed part of the 2004+ teams. The sustained success took longer to build.

I'm sure Leeds are still pursuing that philosophy that you're saying they should "get back to". Perhaps it's just that you don't get clutches of talent like Sinfield/Burrow/McGuire/Bailey/Diskin etc coming through at the same time very often?

Taken in context when you look at the club's history it's maybe just that you've entered another fairly barren period as regards success.

I'm guessing GH's hands are tied in some way (no Kath jokes, please). The way the club's currently being run in no way resembles the past approach. A lot of reining-in cost-wise IMO.

GH lost he plot when he failed to move McDermott on at the end of last season. He should have gone end of 2015 after the treble. A coach can ultimately only fail. The job ahead of McD was beyond him and GH should have seen this and moved him to a different position within the club or asked him to look for a new challenge somewhere else.
The Segeyaro situation is comical only because it was so f*****g obvious what was going to happen. I hate deliberate ignorance, and this is a classic case of a CEO deliberately ignoring the obvious and trotting out the "he's contracted to us and will be returning" BS when he knew that the moment Segeyaro got off the plane in Australia after playing in a $h!t side against second division opposition (and English second division at that), that he was not coming back. It's stupid on so many levels but mainly because it means we have no other options in place to fill a critical on field position that caused huge issues last season to begin with.

Personally, Segeyaro didn't excite me. His distribution was dubious at times (a lot of forward passes not seen thankfully), he defended well up the middle but is so small he can't really dominate a tackle. His size should have made him quick but he barely ran from dummy half and certainly wasn't the attacking menace he was bigged up as. I'm not surprised he wasn't picked up by an Australian club.