But how can a professional RL club survive on crowds like this?
Harlequins v Salford
1,957
Enough said.

and i bet they were all freebies

A team in Yorkshire/Lancashire would be berrated for a crowd like this but remember it is sky sports who pay the money they aren't bothered about the crowd figures they just want people to buy their tv packages

A disgrace to the game. And how many times have Harlequins been bailed out over the years?

Devil's advocate...

To be fair to London the Reds sure won't be their biggest gate of the season. Quins home average at the time of writing is hovering on 2600, which still ain't knocking the pots over, but it is a fair bit over the sub 2k. And they've yet to see Bradford, KR, Leeds, Saints, Wakey, Warrington and Wigan visit the Stoop, most of whom are more than likely going to push that number upwards.

Still not amazing I understand that, but there you go...

Do we have to have a thread on the Cas board every time Quins have a home game?

If you want to whine about it, go to the VT.

The problems are numerous though.

They get prefferential treatment because of their geographical location. They have been in the top flight for a number of years with nothing so much to shout about apart from one CC final appearance which they got trounced in. They have brought through one player of any decency through their system throughout the numerous years they have been top flight. They consistantly average poor attendances even though they have such a large catchment area. They have changed names more times than soft mick. And to top it all off they would almost certainly in every instance get chosen to appear in the top flight before any heartland club, including ours, no matter what state the heartland club was in.

And if any Cas fan doesn't have serious problems with the last part of my post then you should do. Because in a one on one franchise application between us and them, they would get the nod every time. Now tell me if this is fair?!

*sigh*

Gaz, sorry pal but if you don't want to read it. Then don't.

Gaz, I understand your point, but this does all have a baring on Cas. Some people say that we are at risk of not been given another Superleague license, although going by the criteria we should get one quite easily. The only criteria we don't really meet is that we won't have a stadium that meets all of the stadia criteria for the full 3 years of the next franchise.

The KEY thing about any business franchise is that the franchisee must be able to run a stable business. That means that (in an RL sense) the clubs must be financially sound and receive a sufficient income to be able to meet the costs of fielding a successful rugby league squad. The quins fall down here and even had to fully financially restructure during the demise of the Broncos and the birth of the quins rl. Their crowds are often around the 2k Mark which is simply not viable.

The bottom line is that if the RFL have any credibility at all, then the quins can not be given a franchise. I know that Wakey have had their problems of late but even they have got a far better case to put for a franchise than the quins have. Sadly I feel that the rules will just not apply to the quins (you only have to read Lewis's comments about their crowds) and that they will somehow be given another franchise.

If they did get one over us then (regardless of how much I love this sport and Cas) I will no longer be able to keep paying my money to watch a sport which I could only view as being corrupt. I am actually a big fan of the franchise system, but it needs to be fair with all teams playing from the same rule book.

Its a wonder dave "common sense"lister hasnt been on here with his "points",lol,seems all he wants is to cause trouble on every board !!
FCs is the latest.

TBH anyone who bases their nickname on a flawed character with some sort of cult status needs to take a long hard look at themselves!

The facts of life are:-

a) The RFL is Sky's B*tch due to SKY money and will bend any rule it needs to, to keep them happy!
b) There are some genuine supporters in London and Wales, credit to them, but their support is maybe via Sky subscriptions numbers not turnstyles.
c) Sky cares about subscriptions, and any damage to our game at source is just collateral damage in order to get or help secure subscriptions.
d) To keep SKY happy, the RFL are pushing each club into situations which take them closer and closer to bankrupcy as it has done to football over the past 10 or 15 years.

Don't get me wrong I love to watch a SL game on SKY, but I just wish that the RFL had the b@lls to stand up to them before they ruin the game that dates way back beyond SKY.

You missed the fifth: that people on the Cas forum will bang on about this constantly regardless of rhyme or reason.

a) yes, undoubtedly, and so are all the clubs
b) Well aside from the people who actually go to the games, as there are some. Anyway, what is wrong with people supporting the sport via their Sky box if the game is, in your words, "Sky's B*tch" and the vast majority of revenue generated by clubs is via Sky subscriptions, not people through the turnstyles?
c) How much "damage to our game at source" would occur if Sky didn't care about subscriptions? Much of the funding for grassroots all the way up to Super League comes from Sky having a successful, profitable business. Sky use RL to sell subscriptions, the RL use Sky to develop the game and have the best sporting talent on the planet playing at the highest level. It's give a little, get a little.
d) Can you be more specific? Super League innovations like the salary cap and licensing are designed to NOT cause clubs to go towards bankruptcy. How does having clubs go to the wall help sell Sky boxes?

CAS FAN and Jon Normy: I tried to stay out, but failed. I just don't understand why people paint the RFL and Sky as the bad guys. Living outside the heartlands, I try to convert as many people to our great game as possible, it is infuriating how little recognition there is for this brilliant sport there is, and living amongst people will warped viewpoints is hard. If we are to convert those people to the game, we need Sky investing money, we need clubs playing in appropriate stadia and we need a national team that can not be embarrassed every time they are on national television.

This is all garbage, we can take ourselves out of this rediculous debate by:
A: continuing to develop and place ourselves ON THE FIELD ahead of less well attended clubs; IE - being more successful.
B: Continuing to develop the junior playing staff and reducing over time the burden on salary and transfer players as promoting within and growing quality is cheaper that buying proven comodity. Making ourselves more sustainable than less supported clubs.
C: Doing as we said we would, build a stadium and play in it. Therefore continuing to facilitate A and B.

It isn't even worth a debate, do you think Wigan, Warrington, Bradford, Saints, Hull, Huddersfield are having this debate - no, and some of those haven't what you would call won anything just like us, they're not because they have taken themselves out of the equation to be marginalised by saying they were going to (one way or another) play in a quality venue - and then did as they said.

I am not going to frustrate myself by thinking somethig stinks or it is bent - if we leave ourselves in the situation where we are relying on our history and promises, then we leave ourselves in a position to be marginalised.

All we have to do is say what we are going to do, in detail - then do it. Nothing more and nothign less then this whole sideshow can go on without our even casting a wary glance toward it.

What proof is there that London has so many sky subscribers just for RL?

Here's a simple question to all the lovers of the way our game is going and SKY/RFL's great expansion plan.

1) Do you think that away fans are an integral part of our game?

2) and do you think that they are important to our game?

Just give me a simple 'YES' or 'NO'!

You realy do have a very blinkered view. As Mdean says once we have a new stadium, we're getting 10,000 a week supporters like Wire, and we're spending up to the salary cap and bringing some real quality in - you wont care anymore.

Rather than blaming SKY and the RFL for all our problems, except that to move forward as a club we must embrace change.

Simples.

Now you are taking the P'. That quote is like something Brian Potter would say on Pheonix nights. 'I have a vision....we will build a stadium...and 10,000 a week will come....'





[size=85Small print.....other than when we play, Catalan, Crusaders, Quins or any other expansion team.



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If you were to poll the current SL supporters and ask them why don't you currently come to the Probiz.......how many do you think will say...oh that's easy, it because you're not in a shiney new stadium!!

It's hurting my sides laughing and this.

...AND STILL THE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF VISITING FANS IS IGNORED. A simple yes of no was all I asked!!! Or is it easier to ignore it and keep with......the vision?

1. No

2. No

I'd much prefer to have a ground full of Cas fans than a ground full of away fans.

Well Gazemous.....the club is always looking to save a few quid.

Why don't you drop Dicky Wright a quick email and tell him to save a few quid by not building an away supporters side to the new stadium as 'you' the voice of RL' doesn't think they either an important or intergral part of our game.

In fact the Cas fans would prefer to be in a ground by themselves.

C'mon surely your having a laugh!!

How am I the 'voice of RL''? Simply put, it is the club's responsibility to build their own fanbase, not rely on other clubs bringing fans.

As for contacting RW, away fans do come to games whether they're important or not, so having space for them is worthwhile. That said, I'm not aware of any 'away supporters side' at Wheldon Road...

Do you have a similar gripe concerning Salford and Huddersfield fans who bring a small following to our ground or is it just confined to the 'expansion' clubs?

The emphasis is on us to have a stadium that appeals to all fans but more importantly, the 'stay-away' home fans.

Granted Salfords away support could be stronger, and Huddersfields isn't bad in my opinion. Both of which is very different from being non-existent as it is with the expansion clubs.

Do you honestly think that the Probiz Coliseum ground 'puts off' further potential home supporters (to the tune of 3 or 3,500) coming to the game?