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| Quote ="Towns88"Adios. the show will very much continue without Denny. Cheers for the 2 years. But we have lost fantastic individuals before and still continued to grow as a team. More so then ever I am confident that this will happen again, very excited for 2017.'"
Would you not be a bit disappointed in the club for not just cashing in if it was obvious he wanted to go? £350k would be a lot of money to have missed out on.
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| Quote ="jakeyg95"Would you not be a bit disappointed in the club for not just cashing in if it was obvious he wanted to go? £350k would be a lot of money to have missed out on.'"
I don't see why any tigers fan should be disappointed with the club. They have said they wanna hold on to their best players.
Denny may have wanted to leave but he has a contract and cas had every right to turn down any offer. Denny should have accepted he was staying.
Remember when SBW walked out on his contract with Canterbury to go to French rugby.
The NRL slapped a ban on him.
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| The situation is as so,
Denny signs a long term contract renewal, on a pittance really, of £40'000. He has the season of his life, benefiting from some great link play inside of him, breaks all the records. The rumours have it he demanded £120k a year. Of which Cas wouldn't or couldn't stretch to at the time, I'm sure there are some at the club who thought he deserved rewarding.
There have been big offers come in, but we're making a stance that we do not want to be a selling club, we want to be a big club and keeping our prize assets is the only way to go. We turn down offers, which is a first for us as we're not desperate for the cash. The player and those around him have decided he's leaving anyway.
Sale had rumoured to have told him they'd pay his fines for not returning training until a deal was struck, Denny Solomona told the players before now he wasn't coming back, that I'm sure of. So to not come back is no surprise. However to post on social media today the stuff he has is disrespectful and bang out of order.
I don't blame him for wanting a move if a huge pay rise is there, but the club have one hell of a legal battle on their hands and the sport as a whole does, if Denny walks away for free, the floodgates are opened. And we can kiss goodbye to all our superstars as as soon as someone in Rugby Union waves the cash, they'll be off.
I hope he goes to Sale, I hope we reach an amicable solution, the fees talked about were around £300'000. To be quite honest, if we could get half of that and walk away tomorrow. We'd have done well
But the RFL ought to be monitoring this closely, and ensuring they either back the club in their fight, or fix up any loopholes that may have been exploited for future. Ideally. Both.
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| Quote ="kobashi"I don't see why any tigers fan should be disappointed with the club. They have said they wanna hold on to their best players.
Denny may have wanted to leave but he has a contract and cas had every right to turn down any offer. Denny should have accepted he was staying.
Remember when SBW walked out on his contract with Canterbury to go to French rugby.
The NRL slapped a ban on him.'"
Maybe not disappointed then but if it was Wakefield I'd be a bit annoyed if we had someone who was adamant they wanted to go, we refused to sell and then they ended up leaving for nothing. I'd obviously blame the player more than the club but I'd probably feel like the club should have been less stubborn and taken the money.
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| Quote ="jakeyg95"Maybe not disappointed then but if it was Wakefield I'd be a bit annoyed if we had someone who was adamant they wanted to go, we refused to sell and then they ended up leaving for nothing. I'd obviously blame the player more than the club but I'd probably feel like the club should have been less stubborn and taken the money.'"
You also don't really want a player at your Club who had been offered a big money move, was stopped and has now got the lip out. Your hardly going to get the best out of him the nest season but I suppose it depends what kind of player it is.
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| Whilst Solomona can 'retire' from RL, he can't just walk away from his contract with Cas. It will undoubtedly have restrictions on activities he can pursue whilst under contract to Cas - all pro sports contracts have such clauses.
That doesn't mean he wouldn't win a restriction of employment case in court, but he as an individual won't be able to just walk away without having to at least to a tribunal if Cas want it. Courts have shown previously (see Iestyn Harris) that they do treat sporting contracts differently from standard employment contracts - i.e. they do take some account of the way pro sports work.
In any event, assuming he leaves he should be barred from RL in general until at least the end of his Cas contract, unless Cas reach an agreement.
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| Quote ="Towns88"Adios. the show will very much continue without Denny. Cheers for the 2 years. But we have lost fantastic individuals before and still continued to grow as a team. More so then ever I am confident that this will happen again, very excited for 2017.'"
So you should be.
It must be a good feeling thinking your team could actually achieve something in the year ahead.
Alas, I've never experienced that, well maybe in the late seventies, I digress.
I too think Cas have got a decent chance next season, unless they have another injury year from hell, oh, & the Zac effect, it will either be a master signing or a calamity.
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| Quote ="Dettoriman"The situation is...(SNIP)'"
Great post - very incisive.
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| Could form a very interesting & potentially quite bitter case should Cas &/or the RFL pursue it.
It could be argued that RL & RU are inextricably linked & that the differences between codes are minor & therefore he is not retiring, moreover that Sale are avoiding a transfer fee/proper compensation by surreptitious means.
Of course this is fraught with financial risks & Cas would be wise to try to mediate with Sale for the original transfer fee offered & possibly use the threat of legal action to achieve it.
I do not claim to have any legal knowledge, training or inside info but these look like plausible courses of action IMPOV.
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| I would have thought as a minimum Denny would have to buy out the remainder of his contract. I'm not an expert in employment law however I know that my job has a 12 week notice period. If I decided to walk out tomorrow my employers can sue me for the value of 12 weeks wages. I'd assume that is similar to his contract. I believe he had 2 years left so to buy it out would cost 2 years wages with Cas holding his RL registration for the next 2 years.
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| Quote ="bentleberry"So is retiring from a championship club and signing for a SL club a couple of months later. Perhaps Rangi Chase should be part of your ban too?'"
When Rangi decided he wanted to come back, Leigh released his registration (which they had held when he retired). Derek Beaumont released a statement wishing Rangi the best for the future....completely different situation to this.
Im fairly certain he cannot just retire from RL to go to RU for free, i think if Sale and Cas cant agree on a fee and DS does refuse to come back to Cas..then it would probably go to the court of arbitration for sport.
Either way, i hope it gets resolved soon, it doesnt paint anyone involved in a good light.
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| Quote '" Quote ="tigersteve"When Rangi decided he wanted to come back, Leigh released his registration (which they had held when he retired). Derek Beaumont released a statement wishing Rangi the best for the future....completely different situation to this.
Im fairly certain he cannot just retire from RL to go to RU for free, i think if Sale and Cas cant agree on a fee and DS does refuse to come back to Cas..then it would probably go to the court of arbitration for sport.
Either way, i hope it gets resolved soon, it doesnt paint anyone involved in a good light.'"
The only difference is the kind nature of Derek Beaumont, if Gill decides to release Solomon's registration then it would be almost exactly the same situation
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| Quote ="jimlav"Love it how all the Cas fans are coming out of the woodwork to say how this is the worst thing to happen to rugby league, whilst forgetting all the other players from other clubs who have walked out.
Also all the players from other clubs who have moved to union/nrl for nothing/next to nothing. As a whole they defend the salary cap to the hill. You reap what you sow.
Lawyers now involved. Would love to see a legal case involving players, challenging the right for owners of rugby clubs to discuss and vote on the suppression of wages in the industry. Cannot see how it is legal for owners to collude in this way to keep wages low, any other industry in which all the bosses got together and agreed to not raise the wages for ~20 years (not even in line with inflation) would be found to be illegal.'"
Happens all the time in the public sector. The government (effectively) decides the salary level of every public sector employee. Many have been frozen for years.
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| Quote ="Trainman"I would have thought as a minimum Denny would have to buy out the remainder of his contract. I'm not an expert in employment law however I know that my job has a 12 week notice period. If I decided to walk out tomorrow my employers can sue me for the value of 12 weeks wages. I'd assume that is similar to his contract. I believe he had 2 years left so to buy it out would cost 2 years wages with Cas holding his RL registration for the next 2 years.'"
Yep. He can't just walk away from his contract without Cas agreeing.
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| Quote ="bentleberry"The only difference is the kind nature of Derek Beaumont, if Gill decides to release Solomon's registration then it would be almost exactly the same situation'"
Solomona had 2 years left to run on his contract. Cas Tigers have had 3 offers (all rejected) and have said he is not for sale. Why would Gill decide to release his registration ? There is no comparison whatsoever in the two cases.
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| I suspect this case may be resolved quickly, with Cas being scared off a long legal persuit and agreeing to Sale's terms. If not, it's a case that could have enormous ramifications for professional sport in this country. For me, the issue isn't Solomona singing for or playing for Sale, it's him reneging on a legally binding contract with Cas. I'd suspect the legal action will have to be Cas against Solomona rather than Cas against Sale.
If Solomona is able to just walk away from one professional sports contract and take another, I cannot see why a football player couldn't. You could end up with all professional sports contracts being pay as you play, with players moving freely between teams. As with the salary cap, any governing body rules to prevent it could easily be overcome legally as a restriction of trade.
Of course, I might not be right with any of that.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"I suspect this case may be resolved quickly, with Cas being scared off a long legal persuit and agreeing to Sale's terms. If not, it's a case that could have enormous ramifications for professional sport in this country. For me, the issue isn't Solomona singing for or playing for Sale, it's him reneging on a legally binding contract with Cas. I'd suspect the legal action will have to be Cas against Solomona rather than Cas against Sale.
If Solomona is able to just walk away from one professional sports contract and take another, I cannot see why a football player couldn't. You could end up with all professional sports contracts being pay as you play, with players moving freely between teams. As with the salary cap, any governing body rules to prevent it could easily be overcome legally as a restriction of trade.
Of course, I might not be right with any of that.'"
The problem with the Solomona case, compared with say, football, is that, a footballer couldn't go an play basketball or rugby etc.
However the skill set between League and Union is pretty transferable.
I dont think that any other sport would have this issue but,you would think that Cas have some kind of case against the player, rather than Sale.
However, you would also expect the player to have been receiving some "advice" from somewhere.
The average person wouldn't just walk away from a contract and expect no kind of "cost".
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"However, you would also expect the player to have been receiving some "advice" from somewhere.
The average person wouldn't just walk away from a contract and expect no kind of "cost".'"
I don't know who DS agent is but I would imagine the "advice" came from him.
Heard a couple of advancements today. The RFL are now involved with the case and CTRLFC have suspended DS for missing training.
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| In law a third party can be sued for encouraging a breach of contract between two other parties. Also, despite the 'nicety' of Union and League being different sports, judges are not fools, and I don't think that a judge would be willing to allow such a literal interpretation in the case of employment law.
All in all, though, Cas should try to settle out of court. As others have said, though it's always shocking when a player refuses to honour a contract, he can't be forced to play, or at least to play well, so its a no-win situation.
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| Quote ="Asgardian13"In law a third party can be sued for encouraging a breach of contract between two other parties. Also, despite the 'nicety' of Union and League being different sports, judges are not fools, and I don't think that a judge would be willing to allow such a literal interpretation in the case of employment law.
All in all, though, Cas should try to settle out of court. As others have said, though it's always shocking when a player refuses to honour a contract, he can't be forced to play, or at least to play well, so its a no-win situation.'"
We could take him out?
Kidnapp his Mrs?
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| Whilst the financial clout is with RU, I would also doubt whether that sport (or Sale) would want a precedent to be set in this regard either.
Also, as some have said, the mere fact that Solomona would be employed in the same role in another sport would suggest that they are close enough to be counted as the same in a professional sense. This isn't a doctor deciding to become a lawyer overnight.
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| Cas were offered £300k for Denny Solomona and didn't take it?!
Sorry but Denny is a good finisher who benefited from the expansive rugby Cas played last year. He's not worth that.
Cas should have taken the money and bought a superstar with it.
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| This is what we get when we have a nearly quarter of a century old Salary Cap. The Cap needs upping! We're treading water as a league because the Cap is so out of date.
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| Quote ="Psychedelic Casual"This is what we get when we have a nearly quarter of a century old Salary Cap. The Cap needs upping! We're treading water as a league because the Cap is so out of date.'"
Only recently have most clubs started spending at or near the full cap. And it's not like the clubs are ploughing money into other areas like marketing or youth production. The salary cap is a red herring. The issue is revenue.
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| Quote ="Psychedelic Casual"This is what we get when we have a nearly quarter of a century old Salary Cap. The Cap needs upping! We're treading water as a league because the Cap is so out of date.'"
Upping the salary cap would not help Cas Tigers in this situation at all. We pay what we can - which is just under the cap. HIM is correct - revenue is the problem - not the SC.
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