Certainly, HKR got all the crucial decisions and I thought the video ref was bizzare in awarding the try where it seemed like an obvious know on.
Matterson makes the point that the same movement etc at a play the ball situation would definately be a knock on so why wasn't that is a fair point.

Thought cas were unlucky and had the game in your pocket.

It doesn't help if the ref seems to be reffing to new rules that allow constant lying on as Warrington found out again the pie eaters and as leeds found out against the storm last night.
The common theme is that Wigoon, Storm and HKR all took advantage of it; some may say they were just playing to the whistle (that never came) and others like me just call it cheating.
It deffo needs sorting out.

So we rule out any try when a player just 'touches' the ball do we, after all how can they be in 'full control' if the opposition fumble it over the line and the attacker just puts his hand on it.

It clearly has caused disagreement amongst all fans, I suppose it was a 50-50 call and they usually go to the attacking side. I felt at the time it was no try because of the players reaction as where we were (on the halfway on the bottom step) it was impossible to see, but when they replayed it on the screen I said to the missus 'nothing wrong with that' as did a few cas fans stood nearby. Having since seen it several times, i am still of the opinion it was a good call.

So why wasn't the Ainscough try awarded in the first half with the 'benefit of the doubt' to the attacking side? I know they were different, but for me 1 can't be awarded and the other not :\

=#0080FFWell we're all entitled to our own opinions.

As was said on the previous page, if that happened in open play it would have been a knock on.

If the player knocked the ball forward in the air following a kick to the corner and then grounded it that way it would have been a knock on too.

He lost control before the line, Watts was over the line.

But still lost control.

I really dont see how Watts try was awarded, its just like running at a player, throwing the ball over his head and recatching it..

=#0080FFThe only difference being the process of throwing the ball over the opponents head would be done in a controlled manner whereas this was a lack thereof and should have been punished as so.

Quote ="Legionited"=#0080FFThe only difference being the process of throwing the ball over the opponents head would be done in a controlled manner whereas this was a lack thereof and should have been punished as so.'" I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but everyone seems to be seizing on the idea that "being in control" is the key here just because various commentators tell us it is on TV. Nowhere in the laws of the game does it mention this, all that is needed for a try to be scored is for the ball to be grounded in the in goal area, those are the rules that the referee enforces. see for your self www.therfl.co.uk/clientdocs/rugb ... 2007_%20(2).pdf The only question for the liam watts try that needs asking was did he get his hand or arm on the ball before it hit the ground or after, I reckon that's the 50/50 call and it depends on who you support whether you think he did or not.

Quote ="Legionited"=#0080FFThe only difference being the process of throwing the ball over the opponents head would be done in a controlled manner whereas this was a lack thereof and should have been punished as so.'" I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but everyone seems to be seizing on the idea that "being in control" is the key here just because various commentators tell us it is on TV. Nowhere in the laws of the game does it mention this, all that is needed for a try to be scored is for the ball to be grounded in the in goal area, those are the rules that the referee enforces. see for your self www.therfl.co.uk/clientdocs/rugb ... 2007_%20(2).pdf The only question for the liam watts try that needs asking was did he get his hand or arm on the ball before it hit the ground or after, I reckon that's the 50/50 call and it depends on who you support whether you think he did or not.

Which part of the rule says you have to have control when grounding the ball?

Which part of the rule book says you don't have to regather the ball before it hits the ground after knocking on?

The relevant law is Section 10, Law 2 relating to accidental knock-on. This discussion seems to be surrounding people's interpretations of the word 'regains' within this law. If a player grounds the ball cleanly after having previously knocked-on accidentally, are they deemed to have regained the ball?



My interpretation in this situation is that he hasn't regained it and that in actual fact, the ball touching the ground complete's the knock-on. However there is nothing in the glossary to clarify this, the following may be of assistance though:

Quote ="overthemoon"Like it or not, to the letter of the law Liam Watts did score a try. SECTION 6 SCORING – TRIES AND GOALS Value 1. A try shall count four points. Try and Goal A conversion goal or a penalty goal shall count two points. A drop goal during play shall count one point. Deciding winners 2. (a) The game shall be won by the team scoring the greater number of points. If both teams score an equal number of points, or if both teams fail to score, then the game shall be drawn. Try – How scored 3. A try is scored when:– (a) a player first grounds the ball in his opponents’ in-goal, provided that he is not in touch or touch in-goal or on or over the dead ball line. (b) opposing players simultaneously ground the ball in the in-goal area provided that the attacking player is not in touch or touch in-goal or on or over the dead ball line. Sliding try (c) a tackled player’s momentum carries him into the opponents’ in-goal where he grounds the ball even if the ball has first touched the ground in the field of play but provided that when the ball crosses the goal line the player is not in touch or touch in-goal or on or over the dead ball line.'" Downward pressure my backside! www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... Episode_5/ 11 mins 10 seconds into it. The ball hits the floor before he makes contact.

Quote ="overthemoon"Like it or not, to the letter of the law Liam Watts did score a try. SECTION 6 SCORING – TRIES AND GOALS Value 1. A try shall count four points. Try and Goal A conversion goal or a penalty goal shall count two points. A drop goal during play shall count one point. Deciding winners 2. (a) The game shall be won by the team scoring the greater number of points. If both teams score an equal number of points, or if both teams fail to score, then the game shall be drawn. Try – How scored 3. A try is scored when:– (a) a player first grounds the ball in his opponents’ in-goal, provided that he is not in touch or touch in-goal or on or over the dead ball line. (b) opposing players simultaneously ground the ball in the in-goal area provided that the attacking player is not in touch or touch in-goal or on or over the dead ball line. Sliding try (c) a tackled player’s momentum carries him into the opponents’ in-goal where he grounds the ball even if the ball has first touched the ground in the field of play but provided that when the ball crosses the goal line the player is not in touch or touch in-goal or on or over the dead ball line.'" Downward pressure my backside! www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... Episode_5/ 11 mins 10 seconds into it. The ball hits the floor before he makes contact.

The rules still support Liam Watts from what I can gather.

Watts definitely is touching the ball before it hits the floor, whether he thought he'd scored or not.

That was a definate no try. What a shame the video ref was so blind.

what an absolute disgrace of a decision if that was a try why wasn,t ainscough in first half i personally think the dobbins were there for the taking but u seem to switch off same problem as fc have had in the previous two seasons

Spot on. There's no way he 'regained' it. I would like to think that for a player to be deemed to have regained control of the ball (to nullify the accidental knock on), the player needs to have sufficient control that enables them to catch and control the ball before touching the ground i.e. in both hands or hand under the ball that prevents contact with the ground. If that is achieved then he then put down for a try.

Unfortunately, what you or me or anyone, except the VR, would like to think is irrelevant. A player does not have to be in control of the ball, he just needs to have downward pressure. Whether the law sucks is another matter.

Yes that is true for a try but if he knocks on first then it rules out the possibility for a try.

Well, seeing as I'm a Wigan and not a Cas fan, only in the sense that I don't like to see poor decisions deciding matches.

im huddersfield.................... cas were robbed. everybody knows it!

That's the nub of it. I've been racking my memory for incidents in open play where the player loses control/fumbles & then regathers, I'm sure I've seen loads & play on as been given. But the only one I can vividly recollect is Carvell for Wire last year when he fumbled before regaining control & going about 80m to score. Ironically that should not have been given, according to the rules, as it connected with the oppostion defender before he regathered.