Sorry but you are still misquoting people and your entire first post was built on misquotes and “straw man” arguments.
To be clear.
I did not imply that the whole of the pack were either too small, not big enough or were dwarfed as you posted.
I did not imply anything about size/punch, it was a clear statement and I will repeat it.
Our current pack would benefit by having the likes of Gadwin in there based on what is evident now on the field.
We hardly break the line and have little second phase or field position from that section of the team in winter conditions, fact.
How anyone can make a connection to yesteryear and Bradford and state that is where some people are living is total garbage, can you read peoples minds?
Do you honestly think we are at a game in 2022 and giving even a nanoseconds thought to Vagana, Feilden or anything to do with Bradford? And you say others are misleading


SG himself on the one hand acknowledges the threat of size/punch on his assessment of the opposition in his prematch interviews when he says they are a big bunch of lads or have a big pack but for some reason doesn’t add that threat to the side!!
And you have to be at least looking before your going to find that type of player.


Unfortunately the most likely source will be on DR from Huddersfield.
A simple point of example from our own team is Ed Barber.
Ed as a lot of qualities but one of the primary reasons he has stand out games when he plays in the centres is that extra bit of size that punches through the line, often with an offload, second phase, field position, points etc etc.

Relax pal, you have an opinion and as do I. No need to dissect the argument. It's early days and little can we learn.

Just a quick statistical analysis on the game ( haven’t finished watching the 2nd half)

1st half Widnes had

17 completed sets
4 incomplete sets
1 set resulting in a 7 tackle set for fax
Conceded 2 penalties
Made 2 handling errors.

Halifax

11 completed sets
2 incomplete sets
3 sets resulting in 7 tackle set for Widnes
5 conceded penalties
4 handling errors

During our purple patch in the 2nd half we completed 11 sets in a row to Widnes ‘ 4 till joe Martin tried to offload in the tackle then we conceded 2 consecutive penalties, offside from the scrum then high tackle to give them a penalty kick .

Ultimately like mentioned before it’s handling errors and silly penalties conceded that costs us . Interestingly and why I believe Grix goes for the mobile stamina based forward is we complete our sets faster than the opposition , it happened for 20 mins against London and 15 against Widnes, the opposition starts to flag and we add to this by having a relentless gwaze type character on the field . Problem is up to now we undo all that by sloppy play , if/ when it clicks we will score tries on the bounce , if you listen to grixs’ interview that’s what he’s referring to .

Exactly this - the pitch at the South Stand end makes defending and getting out of your own end more difficult. We were in control in the 2nd half and I was confident we could go on and win an maybe get a few more scores. But in those conditions all it takes is an odd error to give away the territory - we made 3 in quick succession

Enjoyed Sunday and glad to return from Yorkshire with the narrowest of victories. Our form for playing away, even on grass, it terrible, add in to the mix a rainy, boggy day, I was pleasantly surprised with how we played. Your lads didn't really show up first half and it felt comfortable at one stage, but once you kicked on in the second half, we were hanging on for a long time.Our halfbacks did a good job, as did doro on loan and Tyler Dupree, think the local Halifax lad has a massive future in the game

It could have gone either way and you just need to concentrate on your next games and start picking the points up, i saw enough from Fax to say them and Widnes look fairly matched and you should go well for the rest of the season

We got there at half 11 on the train, straight to the White Horse. Great pint, very cheap and talking to a number of Fax fans in there. Would go back. Also had a couple in the Duke of Wellington and Royal Oak

Look forward to next years trip

Penalties, errors, poor decision making, there always going to be part of that in every teams game but the fact it’s been mentioned in after the game analysis on numerous occasions from within the club as a problem suggest it’s more than spectators just having a moan.
I fully understand why SG is going with the relentless Gwaze type player and on a hot summers day on a dry pitch can see that being very affective in blowing the lungs out of the big lump opponent.
In the meantime, in winter conditions before you get to wearing your summer trainers and tea shirts it might be prudent to have a pair of big boots and an overcoat in your wardrobe.
We’ve gone all in on a one strategy approach and another couple of losses (if not already) will equate to missing the hoped for good start to the season and relying on a big mid / end of season run in.

Anyway I’m now off to chill out, apparently according to our resident mind reading medical expert I need to relax more.

I can't read that far from Singapore

don't worry pal. We need to remain cohesive, not many fax fans left. A very effective analogy by the way and you are right that 'avoidable' loses such as what might be coming up this weekend might prove agonising towards the business end of the season.

Well I’m already up in Keswick for the short trip to Workington.
Very wet up here already with a couple of big storms on their way in one after the other with rain and 60 to 90 mph winds forecast depending on how far north you are to hit Wednesday / Thursday and possibly beyond.
Have to see how things turn out for the game but those lakes or more accurately mere’s aren't here by accident.



Incidentally did anyone pick up on Kyle Wood maybe being available for this week?

Some more stats courtesy of Widnes https://twitter.com/widnesrl/status/149 ... 04256?s=21 As regards the forwards it’s an ongoing debate , we have been unfortunate with injuries to gee and knowles . There are too many variable unknowns to make complete judgments , one is finances , have we spent close to our budget because of the the rumoured two leagues of ten , we appear to have at least 3 financially healthy sponsors in stage freight , eclipse energy and Deliveree , listening to various sources this is where some extra capital came from for some of the signings however Grix seemed to debunk that theory in his interview with mick gledhill stating the funds had come from better management of funds not independent investments . So how much money we had or have left is an unknown. I think overall Keyes Aston and jouffret are an upgrade on Harris and Robinson but due to injury we won’t see knowles for the rest of the season and gee till April, gwaze has been a good signing . I wonder if Grix new gee was injured when he signed him . If we had been offered Dupree then that is a mistake imo and I’m hoping we draft on an Oliver roberts type player for the double fev matches then the Leigh games .

Some more stats courtesy of Widnes https://twitter.com/widnesrl/status/149 ... 04256?s=21 As regards the forwards it’s an ongoing debate , we have been unfortunate with injuries to gee and knowles . There are too many variable unknowns to make complete judgments , one is finances , have we spent close to our budget because of the the rumoured two leagues of ten , we appear to have at least 3 financially healthy sponsors in stage freight , eclipse energy and Deliveree , listening to various sources this is where some extra capital came from for some of the signings however Grix seemed to debunk that theory in his interview with mick gledhill stating the funds had come from better management of funds not independent investments . So how much money we had or have left is an unknown. I think overall Keyes Aston and jouffret are an upgrade on Harris and Robinson but due to injury we won’t see knowles for the rest of the season and gee till April, gwaze has been a good signing . I wonder if Grix new gee was injured when he signed him . If we had been offered Dupree then that is a mistake imo and I’m hoping we draft on an Oliver roberts type player for the double fev matches then the Leigh games .

I think you have made the point about our pack better then me well said. Another telling factor from sunday was salty getting man of the match well deserved for him but in those conditions forwards should be in there element on a heavy slow pitch but our best players other then Titus where both playing on the wing.

Not gonna lie this weather is getting on my nerves 1 game played on Mount Everest and two games played on a ploughed field , watched the Bradford v Leigh game last night played on a nice lush pitch reasonable conditions whilst we look forward to another bogathan at Workington . Someone said on fb wood was out for 12 weeks (apparently came from the horses mouth but make of it what you will as fb not the most reliable source )with a torn bicep but then Grix said he could be available this week so who knows.

Quote ="Listenup94"Some more stats courtesy of Widnes https://twitter.com/widnesrl/status/149 ... 04256?s=21 As regards the forwards it’s an ongoing debate , we have been unfortunate with injuries to gee and knowles . There are too many variable unknowns to make complete judgments , one is finances , have we spent close to our budget because of the the rumoured two leagues of ten , we appear to have at least 3 financially healthy sponsors in stage freight , eclipse energy and Deliveree , listening to various sources this is where some extra capital came from for some of the signings however Grix seemed to debunk that theory in his interview with mick gledhill stating the funds had come from better management of funds not independent investments . So how much money we had or have left is an unknown. I think overall Keyes Aston and jouffret are an upgrade on Harris and Robinson but due to injury we won’t see knowles for the rest of the season and gee till April, gwaze has been a good signing . I wonder if Grix new gee was injured when he signed him . If we had been offered Dupree then that is a mistake imo and I’m hoping we draft on an Oliver roberts type player for the double fev matches then the Leigh games .'" You make some good points there and ask some interesting questions. I do not think will get anyone from huddersfield for the cup game with fev because that will cup tie them but hopefully starting on sunday we might get some reinforcements for the league.

Quote ="Listenup94"Some more stats courtesy of Widnes https://twitter.com/widnesrl/status/149 ... 04256?s=21 As regards the forwards it’s an ongoing debate , we have been unfortunate with injuries to gee and knowles . There are too many variable unknowns to make complete judgments , one is finances , have we spent close to our budget because of the the rumoured two leagues of ten , we appear to have at least 3 financially healthy sponsors in stage freight , eclipse energy and Deliveree , listening to various sources this is where some extra capital came from for some of the signings however Grix seemed to debunk that theory in his interview with mick gledhill stating the funds had come from better management of funds not independent investments . So how much money we had or have left is an unknown. I think overall Keyes Aston and jouffret are an upgrade on Harris and Robinson but due to injury we won’t see knowles for the rest of the season and gee till April, gwaze has been a good signing . I wonder if Grix new gee was injured when he signed him . If we had been offered Dupree then that is a mistake imo and I’m hoping we draft on an Oliver roberts type player for the double fev matches then the Leigh games .'" You make some good points there and ask some interesting questions. I do not think will get anyone from huddersfield for the cup game with fev because that will cup tie them but hopefully starting on sunday we might get some reinforcements for the league.

I was told on sunday that we could be getting Adam Obrien on dr for workington if true that might prove wood is out for the time being if not i have been told a porkie.

Haven’t seen the Leigh v Bulls game but here is a quote from some of JK’s after game comments.

“ My concerns are at the relative ease in which Leigh found territory and made yardage simply by carrying the ball aggressively.”

So when watching it, who from the Leigh team was John Kear referring to, was it the pack?

In the main,their centres a beast too.There's been a lot of bollx flying around this thread about our pack-just to re-iterate a well laboured point.Our pack is badly lacking in any type of weather,as it was on firm tracks in the second half of last season.This seasons finishing place will confirm the inevitable.The only mitigation is the horrendous injury to Knowles and would we have taken Gee on knowing the timescales ? allowing for that and the signing of Gwaze still went nowhere near far enough.

Yes in the main the pack plus mellor and nene MacDonald is a beast , Bradford we’re quite competitive in the 1st half but made life hard for themselves with ill discipline ( bit like fax) then in the 2nd half blobfords pack started to show signs of too many pies spoiling the undersized t shirts and were obliterated by superior fitness , pace and physicality. Then D foggin johnson decided to clothes line one of their players to compound things . No idea who’s in charge of there fitness but it’s gonna be a long season for them especially with all the injuries they have .

Okay thanks to BJ and Listen.
The point of interest for me regarding the Leigh pack playing a big part in making the yards just adds a key area to watch out for when we meet them at the Shay at the end of March.

Regardless of the condition of the pitch can we match them in the middle?

If it’s still heavy will that be a leveller for Leigh or will it show any indication that Big is Better in those type of conditions.

If it’s firmed up will the hoped for Fax mobility factor show any signs of that coming to fruition?

Before then there will be a few other KPI’s to have a look at starting this weekend.

In all this pontificating don't forget Widnes' only try came at the end of a set with a blatant forward pass in it.

Very difficult to say as Halifax are to hit any kind of form but on what we see right now I’d say no we can’t match them , 21st of March might see woodburn hall back at a squeak which would help , if we give a good account of ourselves against fev then that would help the confidence . They play York next week which will be an interesting game , see how they go there .

Yes. I called it immediately at the game, Eribe Doro made the pass, a little pop up ball move and later in the same set scored the try but after careful consideration I can’t see how focusing on that helps us with the question in hand about the pack.

So to pontificate or not to pontificate is that the question, is that even a question?

Anyway Hudds if you don’t behave I’ll suggest that the solution is DR, DR and more DR.

Don't start that!

It's also interesting to see the penalty count. It's not how many you get sometimes, it's whereabouts on't pitch you get 'em. As you rightly say it doesn't help us with the debate about the pack but remember we lost this game by one point.

I was wrong about the penalty count and thought at the game there was more conceded by us.
The timing of them as well was a sickener, we finally started to get some momentum and the home support something to get behind them and then

stuff, game gone


All part and parcel of being a Fax fan as we all well know.

One of the main turning points for me was when we had just defended our line and got a relieving penalty only for our captain to throw an awful pass above a forwards head that was knocked on. If that does not scream to a coach that a player is fatigued then I really don't know what else will. Then with about 6 minutes to go the same player takes the wrong option, runs round in a circle, and we end up trying to get a drop goal off in the mudbath area of the pitch. Im a massive Moore fan but I can't help but think that the reason Jouffret was left on the bench was to prove a point, its the same way that Joe Martin has been brought in to play fullback and Walmsley has been made the scapegoat and has not had a look in.

Last year I said the same thing about the Springer signing, Grix must have known exactly the type of player he were getting when he signed him and for this season its like he is seeing something he does not like in a few of the players sitting out which could suggest a lack of research on the signings.

Moore is a top player in this division but I say again, I don't think making him captain has done him or the team any good.

On Jouffret can’t make my mind up wether with Wood missing leaving him out of the 17 completely would have been an even bigger statement (and he’d done that against London) than after including him and not even to get on the field.
Grix stated that both he and Finny had a similar game plan just rolling the same middles on and off the field.
From that I can only think that LJ was on the bench to give cover for the 1,6,7 & 9 slots which I suppose makes sense.
If that was the case and even if Brandon was still okay for the full 80, when chasing the game at the end LJ could have come on for one of the halves, say Aston to bring a bit of extra zip and momentum to the side, so we’ve focussed on the 9 slot but other options were possible.
Downside of that it would have used up one of the bigger middle interchanges SG had based his game plan on.
Anyway, all conjecture and I for one am always wiser after the event, it didn’t happen and we’ll never know.