Could this idea ever get off the ground? Presumably it would be based on new technology based projects rather than traditional manufacturing? Is there the willpower and energy to make a success out of this concept or has the northern workforce somehow lost the qualities that created the first Northern Powerhouse of the industrial revolution? I would love to see something around this concept taking place, but I wonder about the practicalities....infrastructure, investment, skills

What is a Northern powerhouse?

a new train line between Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield.

Something to distract the North while they pave London's streets with gold.

What the North (and the rest of the country) needs is better infrastructure. We need the cities (major and minor) far better interconnected by road, rail, high speed internet etc alongside more local responsibility & decision making as to where money goes.
The North in particular is crying out for some mid to high end technology/manufacturing so that talented people don't have to move down south to find the better jobs.

This is all coming off the back of the powers that be in Manchester deciding that they will appoint a mayor, and as a result will be given greater control of how the city is run. All this despite it being rejected by the electorate a couple of years ago. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32726171

This is all coming off the back of the powers that be in Manchester deciding that they will appoint a mayor, and as a result will be given greater control of how the city is run. All this despite it being rejected by the electorate a couple of years ago. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32726171

It does make you think though. I remember my first job. We used to have a big RAC roadmap up in the corner of the office which was so old three quarters of the M6 motorway simply wasn't there.

When you think of the truly massive building projects we embarked upon immediately in the wake of WWII (when we were all but broke financially):

The motorway system.
NHS infrastructure.
Nuclear power stations (specifically Windscale).
The building of schools and polytechnics.
Airports.
etc. etc. etc.

I mean, they're constantly raving about the benefits afforded by the HS2 project. But HS2 is practically dwarfed in scale next to the entirety of the above.

And think of all we gained from the above.

It's a very similar story in the United States. Right now they are facing the costs of renewing the colossal feats of infrastructure which were initiated by the Eisenhower and Kennedy administrations.

Infrastructure in the North is great. Much easier to get around on Motorways etc than the South East! Infrastructure is not the problem. It's people with ideas and money to invest that's the problem.

A fully integrated, well thought out transport infrastructure would help.

Won't happen because too many selfish, self interested individuals and businesses will fight tooth and claw because it may "cost" in the short term.

That's part of the problem, in this country short term means 1 year, medium term 3 years and long term 5 years and if you don't "get a return on the investment" AKA something for nothing, then the finances will be not be forthcoming.

This country has some of the best business brains on the planet, sadly they are not running the businesses and systems that are currently in place or could be in the future, our outdated socio-economic system based on aristocratic methodologies rather than meritocratic methodologies is a key contributor as to why potentially beneficial systems to ALL never really have a chance.

But hey, lets not dwell, what you never had you never miss.

There are good jobs in the north. Graphine technology is currently putting Manchester on the map and both Manchester and Leeds have very strong digital, legal and financial economies.

The problem is that the infrastructure is very poor. Rail in the north still involves a crowded 3 carriage pacer train. It currently takes a hour to travel between the two biggest cities in the north, even though they are just 40 miles away. The M62 between Ainley Top and Gildersome is more congested than the M25 and inner-city transport is laughable.

Take somewhere like Teeside as an example - one of the most deprived areas of the country. Geographically, it's hardly a million miles away from Newcastle, which is doing OK for itself. It stands to reason therefore that Teeside could easily provide a labour force for Newcastle - until you look at the rail network.

There is one direct train an hour between Middlesbrough or Stockton and Newcastle. That train takes more than one hour and a season ticket costs around £230 a month - roughly one week at NMW. There is therefore little incentive for the people of Teeside to commute to where work is, which leads to the area struggling.

People will always move to where there is work so, if we make an assumption that people are prepared to commute by an arbitrary amount (let's say up to 45 mins each way) and prepared to pay an arbitrary amount to commute, you have two options:

Option 1 is to cram as many people into a 45 minute radius around major employment hubs as you possibly can. That creates all sorts if infrastructure issues on housing, schools, hospitals, etc, and it seriously harms the towns and cities that these people leave.

Option 2 is to increase the number of places that fall within this 45 minute radius. You do this by improving rail links to make them more frequent, faster, more affordable and capable of carrying more people. You can also do this by improving the road networks and by improving accessibility to infrastructure such as high speed internet, negating the need for as many people to move around in the first place.

I know which one I prefer.

It's a method of linking all the call centres to each other, so that DWP staff can demand that someone in Hull must accept a zero-hours, NMW job in a call centre in Rainford because they can get there 5 minutes quicker

It's a stupid idea as proposed by Osborne. For a start it imposes a Mayor who will have real power and far from making this more democratic it removes it from the council and councilors.

And what about the effects on the surrounding regions who won't have whatever extra powers GMR gets?

I am surprised Richard Lees has fallen for the ruse. He's also ignoring the electorate who rejected the idea of a London style Mayor (twice in the recent past I think).

It also takes central government one further step away from economic responsibility. Probably the main reason for the proposal

When they are lead by a man who distances himself from every controversy or difficult decision, preferring instead to have henchmen and women take the flack (step forward IDS) then its no surprise that delegating difficult budget responsibilities would be placed on another strata of fallguys/girls.

Soon we won't need a central government at all.

Would that necessarily be a bad thing?

As I understand it the NE and West Yorks have or are likely to sign up too?

It will be interesting to see how this goes. If it goes well then these areas will start to boom and finish the Labour party off for good over time?

Another scenario may be that the localities, likely in the short-term to be Labour controlled will have to raise local taxes to try to keep the health services, etc up and running. That will prove unpopular, we may see cities going bust / hospitals closing / being privatised by the nack door. In this scenario Labour also loses.

Smart politics from Osborne. But to give him the benefit of the doubt it is a potentially bold move that gives these areas a degree of autonomy to develop themselves. Gives them a chance to get out of the shackles of a Labour party that has had a vested interest in perpetuating poverty and largesse via the public sector in order to gain votes.

Leeds and Newcastle both rejected it when it was put to them a couple of years ago.

I know but I thought it was firmly back on the cards?

I've not heard anything official from within LCC, but a new Labour leader of the council has just been appointed, so maybe they'll do what the Mancs did and push it through without consulting the electorate again. Time will tell.

Come, join us, we have pies...

This is a bit different from what was rejected in the NE a few years ago, that was basically an imposed structure, but in this case the existing local authorities are the ones who get to put forward the proposals for what they want to do and how they will do it. Local authorities in England's regions are screaming out for more devolved powers so there is a genuine desire from the bottom up, also it appears that there isn't a single model being considered. I think there is a level of consensus amongst all parties at local government level that change has to happen due to demographic profiles/

As far as Conservative Party strategy goes I think it's a safe bet devolving power to the north of England in particular, Labour have lost the initiative on this and if local authorities in Labour heartlands who are asking for this balls it up then responsibility sits with them and they will (probably) be punished by the electorate.

I can see there will be local authorities who are ambitious and willing to seize the opportunities, willing to work together and be innovative, and then you'll have some which are basket cases who struggle to be anything more than charity cases. I look at the local authorities in Greater Manchester who are pushing hard and clearly have ambitions, then I think about the administration of St Helens MBC who I wouldn't trust to run my bath.

Is it me or does 'Northern Powerhouse' sound like a genre of dance music?

IMO we'd be better off forgetting about HS2 and instead concentrate on improving railways and roads linking northern towns. Having a high speed line between Liverpool and Hull would be a start. We don't need the kind of trains proposed in HS2, Pendolinos would suffice. I think this would need to be routed through St. Helens rather than Warrington or Wigan. It has shoddy rail services for such a large town.

More motorways need to be built. The M65 needs to carry on over the Pennines to Bradford/Keighley and the M67 needs to be extended to the M1 near Sheffield. This would provide 2 more cross Pennine routes to relieve the M62 which is already over used at the best of times.

Many of the current Motorways in South Lancs were designed to allow for extension, M58, M57 etc. Build more roads and the traffic situation will improve. At the moment if one of the major routes is blocked it causes problems on all other routes. I don't know what it's like in Yorkshire but I'm sure it's a similar situation.

Building bigger and better roads jusy worsens traffic jams.