Just wondering if anyone has a Paramo Halcon? If so, what do you think about it? I have looked at some online reviews and most people are very impressed but a few, including someone from Wigan(!), were completely the opposite. Mst people say the most waterproof jacket they've ever had but those who were negative said they weren't! Does that imply poor quality control - inconsistent product?

All depends on your (and their) definition of "waterproof"

Waterproof walking from the car to the office will not be the same as waterproof on a working trawler

Spot on cod'ead, 100% waterproof usually sacrifices any breathability whatsoever, it's a fine balance.

I'm a keen all year round cyclist and some of the best cycle specific jackets are excellent in keeping the water out but not make you feel like a boil in the bag, that said sustained heavy rain will eventually penetrate even the best. TBH the Paramo looks overpriced for what it is and a couple of casual cycling buddies whom do a fair bit of walking reckon they don't keep you that warm so layer up.

They are supposed to be waterproof for people who spend their life outdoors and breathable. One guy who liked them said they'd been in hours of rain in mountainous terrain and all his Berghaus Goretex wearing mates got soaked and he was bone dry. I am talking more of being out in the countryside than commercial fishing!

Any thoughts on Didrikson Swedish Parkas? Saw them for the first time today - looked very well made. Not lightweight / breathable though - firmly a winter coat!

Paramo Halcon uses Nikwax Analogy fabric. A two layer fabric with a Waterproof outer and an inner layer which effectively pumps water from body moisture out. The outer doesn't have taped seams as any water getting through is pumped out by the inner layer. I've never had Nikwax Analogy jackets so can't comment first hand but it does sound like a good fabric.

I've always relied on Gore-Tex and have only been let down once when orienteering on Ilkley Moor in torrential rain and it was my own fault. It was quite an old Karrimor jacket and I hadn't kept the DWR (Durable Water Repellency) coating in good condition. This is the coating that makes the rain bead and run off. The outer layer wetted out and I got quite sweaty on the inside as the inner porous layer couldn't breathe properly. I've still got a Mountain Equipment Gore-Tex from 1998 and I trust it to this day.

There are loads of fabrics on the market now that use similar porous membrane principles to Gore-Tex but you need to make sure you wash them correctly and layer up with man-made fabrics that wick moisture away from the skin. Natural fabrics tend to soak up and hold body moisture in and you get clammy and cold.

Ventile is still a good outer fabric despite its age. It is a densely woven cotton that expands to keep water and wind out but also breathes. Expensive but will last years.

There are also hydrophilic fabrics that are not porous but have a coating on the inside that forces body moisture out. I currently own a Musto jacket using this fabric but it can't keep up to my body heat and it can get a bit clammy inside.

I'd stay away from waxed cotton and rubberised cotton. Vastly outdated fabrics that mainly still exist for fashion purposes. Waxed cotton looks great but it leaks in heavy rain and can sweat up inside, rubberised cotton is just a big no no, you'll boil in your own sweat!

Obviously a waterproof/breathable fabric depends on the individual and the activity. Gore-Tex has always suited me as I'm always warm and it manages to breathe effectively and keep me dry in the activities I do.

Get a North Face. I'm not sure how good the quality is but you will be considered the height of fashion if you were ever to visit Liverpool.

I could be wrong but if something is "breathable" in a garment then it suggests it might have holes in it.

Now, and I could be wrong again, fluids can go through holes both ways unless there is a valve or pressure differential.

Personally I blame the education system and the laws of physics. If they didn't apply and people had not been taught such radical stuff the problem would not exist would it.

It works a bit like human skin if you like. The pores in the membrane are so tiny compared to rain that rain can't get through. Perspiration vapour however is small enough to transpire through to the outside. It's clever stuff.

Thanks for the comments KSC. The Paramo is very expensive and the material is really flimsy feeling which rather puts me off. But, some of the reviews I saw suggested despite that it is still hard wearing. I am looking for something green.

Ive got two Paramo jackets, one is an analogy fleece and the other is a waterproof.

Couple of things to consider. They require maintenance and special cleaner to keep them waterproof.

Don't do what my mum did, which was see the fleece, thought oh that's dirty ill do my son a favour and stick it in the washing machine with the normal washing to clean it up.
End result was the detergent washed out the oily waterproofing. I attempted reproofing with nickwax but that's more to maintain the waterproofing not completely reseal it. End result is the fleece is ok if caught out for 10 mins in a light shower but can no longer handle being in a downpour.

The other jacket I have is an Alta 2 waterproof jacket. This not only keeps you warm in winter but keeps you fully dry. Its also breathable to you can wear it in temperatures in my case upto 18c without toasting. The breathability is a mixture of the fabric and ventilation flaps which can be opened or closed depending on the weather.

Again though this waterproof jacket needs maintenance, so use Techwash cleaner to wash and Nickwax to reseal.

The main benefit of these jackets though is that they are designed for breathable layering. The fleece can be worn under the Alta 2 jacket.

I personally find the analogy materials more breathable than the standard goretex, which I used to have on a sprayway jacket. I used to sweat like a pig in that.

Personally i like Lowe Alpine Triplepoint.

The main thing with any waterproof jacket is how you use it and store it.

If you are constantly taking it off screwing it up and stuffing it in and out of a ruckscak it will cause wear and tear and affect waterproofing.

Waterproofs need to be looked after properly

Wanna stay dry when it's pi[iss[/iing down?

Try four brick walls and a slate roof

To much arsing about with waterproofing, special washing, maintenance, being careful how you hang it - and far to much expense and fashion kudos for my liking on this thread, the one and only time I bought a coat with a brand name and a goretex label I wore it once, put it on the back shelf of the car and had a window smashed and the coat stolen - lesson learned.

Simple solution now is buy a jacket or coat that says "waterproof" on it, not "showerproof" but waterproof, preferably one that doesn't feel the need to splash its manufacturers name all over the front so it won't get nicked ?

Worried about sweating. well at least that means you'll be warm, no-one sweats when they're cold, wear layers and if you're a really sweaty type then maybe find a less strenuous hobby.

As a footnote, I have an old M65 US Army heavy cotton over-jacket with inner removeable quilt, the design has served the US Army well since 1940 and I've never been either cold or wet in it despite it being my main dog walking jacket through the winter - have a look on eBay, you could probably buy three or four of them for what you'll pay for an y "speciality" jacket that you can't screw up and chuck on the back seat of the car - and not have it nicked either.

i think the more strenuous activity you undertake in a jacket the more difficult it is to find a decent product, not from rain protection point of view, but from moisture building up inside. in my sport road cycling waterproofs are usually only donned as a last resort when heavy showers/storms strike or for a sustained period of heavy rain. i will ride without one in light rain for example, or even in heavier rain if i am close to the end of a ride. as bikes have limited carrying space the thin fold up cape is the usual item of choice. fabric is usually not goretex unless you pay very large sums of money. so a lot of the jackets on offer at say the £100 mark are not directly breathable. instead the underarms often have zips or vents to carry away moisture which seem to work well - at speed opening a zip produces a decent wicking effect. i have a craft bike jacket which uses its own make waterproof fabric, its very waterproof and because it is so lightweight with vents never seems to get too clammy on the inside. also i find opening the main zip just a couple of inches makes a big difference. i appreciate that with hiking things are much slower and there is often less breeze to help with the wicking process so jackets with better breathing fabrics become more important. i've had a couple of gore tex walking jackets, my north face one is excellent and never needs much more than a general clean, but i've had no end of wetting out problems with the berghaus.

i guess all products vary in quality. i do have a paramo parameta s fleece which is excellent, and have heard good things about several of their other products. i think one thing to do is look on some of the outdoor gear websites to see what the reviews are like

To try to stay relatively dry and comfortable when, let's say, doing a long distance walk in rain, is an age-old problem. Those who don't naturally sweat much are the lucky ones, but for anyone else, there is always a balance between waterproofing and breathability. No use no rain getting in, if you're just as wet with sweat that can't get out. Hence the need for a fabric that basically has holes in it, but big enough to let water evaporate yet not let water droplets in the other way.

There is a definite limit to how much sweat a garment can cope with but the answer is in using layers of suitable clothing, made from suitable 'wicking' materials, the waterproof but breathable membrane being the last resort.

In my experience (walking rather than biking) any strenuous activity - e.g doing any ascent such as Ingleborough, Scafell or any significant hill climbing, would defeat the breathability of even Gore-tex fabric, and so the better jackets tend to have various "vent" arrangements built in to the design, which [icomplement[/i the breathability of the fabric, as opposed to being the [ionly[/i ventilation in some cheap jackets, like your typical cheap kagoule.

Ultimately trial and error will decide what works for you personally, in whatever activities you personally use the coat for, in what seasons, and what conditions. If you end up wet through then however much or little you paid, it isn't working, and you could do better. If your type of activities get you hot, sweaty and miserable then it sort of defeats the object. And if you go up hills in winter in the wrong gear, you could die.

Would an automatic be safer?