That left wing bastion (

) having to defend it's loathsome, racist, right-wing reactionary presenter once again.
Good viewing figures though.

Is it a left wing or a right wing bastion ?

Depends which newspaper is having a pop at it I suppose.

You have to wonder though where The Mirror got hold of the clip of tape that can be seen today in The Times, its one of three takes that were never aired on TV as Clarkson himself told the producers that he was worried that his mumbled sentence might be misinterpreted, so presumably in the olden days the physical bits of film would have been destroyed as useless but now the digital recording is kept, and then stolen at a later date and leaked to whichever strand of the printed media pay the most or suits their agenda.

I'm not a fan of Clarkson or the silly program that he presents and don't really like his journalism pieces either but I find the whole thing rather strange and not quite right in a way that I can't put my finger on.

I was being sarcastic.
It's politically independent.
That's what the [i[establishment[/i hope we keep believing anyway.

Depends which newspaper and/or political party is having a pop at it.

If you listen to it, there is no clear evidence that Clarkson said the N- word, and unless you believe that despite his normal very clear diction, he suffers from occasional bouts of mumbling and grossly slurring words and phrases, you can work out that he was using the classic "picking" nursery rhyme but deliberately censoring the offending line. Nothing else explains the mumbling/slurring.

Why he or the producer didn't just substitute a different word would be a bigger mystery. If you know any popular video sites then you can watch the various versions by using /watch?v=nlQjdUWqBLE

if he was a rapper, black or white, and had used the word, nobody would have made any comment. It's because he is who he is.

Shouldn't this be in the witch-hunt thread?

I've seen some people say they used to use the N word when they were kids, and I've also seen some people say they used the word beggar.

When I first listened to it he just seemed to be mumbling words because he couldn't remember what the actual words of the rhyme were. I can't remember the rhyme from when I was a kid. So I just thought he was mumbling the sounds of the tune rather than actual words. But when you read the transcript it does seem a lot clearer. But whether that's because of the suggestion of the word and the way the mind works or because he actually said them I don't know.

But I do think is that if a forensic audio expert analysed the audio then they should be able to offer the use of the word in a sound file and making up our own opinions rather than trusting the opinion of a paid expert to provide a transcript.

There are more important things in the world to be worrying about.

And what would be the point? If he's said the 'N' word, he's deliberately mumbled it so as to be almost unintelligible. Are we now lynching people for recognising an offensive word and not uttering it out loud? Granted, perhaps not the wisest choice of rhyme in the first place but again he recognised that and changed the word to 'teacher'.

If I were to sing the version of the old nursery rhyme '10 Little N*gger Boys' and mumble over the 'N' word every time am I a racist? If I sing a rap song containing the 'N' word am I racist or should I mumble that bit? If I wrote a blacklist on a blackboard am I racist?

Saying that, apparently 'Baa Baa Black Sheep' is racist so perhaps there's no point trying.

People choose to take offence though I accept Clarkson isn't to everyone's taste (certainly most of the mob on here). Personally I like that way he sticks two fingers up to a sorry, lilly-livered society which declares 'offence' at the drop of a hat and screams for a faux apology and/or resignation, plus he's a fantastic wind-up merchant and everyone (including on here) bites every time.

If I'm annoyed Subway have replaced ham & bacon with halal turkey ham & rashers at many stores am I racist?

A forensic sound expert? FFS! Please retain at least a molecule of proportion.

Look, we ALL know what a common version of that rhyme is, and it is clear whether he succeeded or not that he was choosing to mumble the "offending" line so as to make it a method of selecting one of two cars by a regular this-that rhyme. It's bleedin obvious WHY he was mumbling and slurring. If he wasn't, then we wouldn't NEED a "forensic expert", as the majority of us have working ears.

If it takes a "forensic expert" and presumably his high tech equipment to advance a theory of what you might have hear or enhanced, if you were a forensic expert with the latest technology, then to the rest of the world, which would not normally hire a forensic expert to tell them what Clarkson says, he did not say it.

The whole thing is very reminiscent of the blasphemy scene in the Life of Brian. Clarkson even put out another video explaining, and apologising for any misunderstanding. The whole thing is so OTT now as to be past absurd.

You can hire me at reasonable cost, I'm a forensic sound expert and can easily tell you what he said, I even know what he was thinking at the time, can't say any more though until you agree to my terms and settle the invoice.

If he said the N word then we'd hear it. If he mumbled something that possibly sounds like the N word but could equally apply to 'Begger' then HE DIDN'T SAY THE N WORD.

The "audio expert" has provided a transcript that concludes that he has said the N word. If he has been caught saying that word then IMO he's getting sacked from Top Gear and virtually all of his media work. He's going to get another job as easily as Ron Atkinson has.

So yes, I think hearing what he actually said is pretty important.



I honestly wouldn't know if I knew the N word version of eni meeni when I was a kid. I might have done, but I could have easily known a less offensive version.

I do recognise that eni meeni as a way of deciding between different cars is a very Top Gear thing to do. He might have been trying to get away with a racist jibe or he could have just been mumbling a rhyme from when he was a kid that he couldn't even remember the words to.



It would depend on the context of you doing it. Given these things are difficult to fit into a normal life I'd say unless you had a good excuse you probably were being racist.

I think Clarkson was acting like Clarkson and I'm not sure what he was doing.



If he wants to be the new British version of George Carlin and shocking the world while saying things on the borders of acceptability I have no problem with that. But he can't really do it while fronting a massive BBC show on a few million quid a year.

If he actually said the N word then he's pretty much done. If he hasn't actually said it and this is just a Mirror smear campaign then the Mirror needs to follow the NotW out of existence.

...all of which is irrelevant because he didn't 'say it'. He mumbled a word which may or may not be taken to be n*gger. What he actually said was, "mmmmer". You even admitted as much:



You only considered it could be n*gger when you were told it could be by the Mirror/Mail/whoever. And then you chose to be offended and decided he should probably be sacked.

Would your existence on the planet be one of them perhaps?

No. I want it to be proven what he actually said. If he just mumbled and there's no proper evidence then I think this is a disgusting witch hunt and would defend Clarkson totally.

If the tape proved that he did actually use the N word and has been caught on tape then I think his career is toast. I'm not that offended by what he did, but IMO getting caught doing that for the BBC is sacking yourself. I wouldn't waste sympathy on Clarkson because his future is secured and he'll be able to still live a fantastic life without ever working again.

I just want the truth to come out. If he has been caught saying the N word he's done and he should know it. But I don't trust the impartiality of either the Mirror or the words of Clarkson. I think the BBC has more independence, but they still have a financial interest in clearing Clarkson whether he did it or not.

I just hope that he's cleared if he's innocent and punished if found guilty. I don't want him getting off with it or, even worse, found guilty when he didn't actually do anything.

The 'truth' is already out. He's already said the rhyme was the 'n*gger' version as it's the one he knows (and a version I remember) but his intention was to mumble in place of the actual word, however when he viewed the take he realised there was a possibility the word might be recognised. That's why they changed it completely, to 'teacher'.

Still, what he said was "nmmmmmr". He did not say 'n*gger'. You want him sacking for vaguely hinting at the word and mumbling virtually unintelligibly. Again, it was a poor choice of rhyme but nothing more than that.

It's not often people are sacked for not actually saying anything.

More pandering

Shows how much you know about George Carlin if you compare him to a throwback like Clarkson.

Or supplying what customers demand?

I don't particularly like Clarkson but do enjoy bits of Top Gear.
Despite my dislike of Clarkson's politics and views on a lot of issues, I don't think he's a racist.

However, I cannot understand why you would even think of doing the N-word version of that rhyme, even whilst mumbling the word. I can't understand the thinking behind that at all.

I don't think he should be sacked. But him and the producer or whoever is in charge in that case need an almighty rollocking for being so monumentally stupid.

By the way, until now, I never even knew there was a version of that rhyme that contained the N-word!

Why not keep both halal and non-halal meats on the menu?

Because for an outlet to be halal they can't have non-halal meats on the premises (same thing for kosher restaurants too).

I have no doubt Subway and their franchisees know their market and at the end of the day it is their business and they can choose what they sell.

I stopped going to Subway when they were rumbled that their foot-long is in fact only 11".

Apparently their chief baker fools his wife in similar fashion.