www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... s-axe.html Bit of a non-story, except perhaps the PMs close 'link' with The Sun?

www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... s-axe.html Bit of a non-story, except perhaps the PMs close 'link' with The Sun?

Talking tough, but has he got the legislation in place to prevent EU/EEA nationals claiming benefits/NHS treatment? Will be interesting if EU countries reciprocate and stop benefits for Brits abroad.

I don't think he's even saying those things. SeMaybe a pre-cursor for withdrawing benefits to born and bred Brits after 6 months?

Could be, but I also wonder if this is just political kite-flying after UKIP gave them a kick up the backside - do they for instance have numbers on how many EU or non-EU immigrants came to the UK in the last year or so and immediately claimed unemployment or housing benefits and then how long they remained here - one things for certain, someone arriving here from Bulgaria next year who is expecting to be able to live the life of riley on JSA is in for a nasty shock - £70 a week might get you a comfortable lifestyle in Bulgaria but it will barely buy you one meal a day here.

The NHS stuff is sensible, but I'm surprised to hear it raised as surely its been the norm for the last sixty years to check on entitlement for free treatment either by EU membership or via and insurance policy - hasn't it ? if so why the hell not ?

Given that the other headline this morning was the very critical report from a committee of MPs over the performance of the Border Agency then all of this could just be fodder for the Murdoch Group anyway, todays headlines to cover up another civil service shambles and an inability to control borders in a country that couldn't really have its borders any better defined.

Hospitals, in general, don't ask where you're from and IMHO shouldn't either, their job is treating patients and admin should be kept to the minimum necessary.
GP's, on the other hand are supposed to check, but there are a small handful who will enrol people into their panel, get them an NHS number and refer them for treatment.
That's where the problem lies.

For A&E, I don't care if someone is from the EEA, USA or Jupiter, we should treat them first and ask questions later.


Aye, that Murdoch swans in and out as he chooses, it's high time he was stopped.

A&E treatment is free to anyone anyway (or at least it was) because its emergency related.

Anyone listen to the Today program this morning? An academic study has just concluded that EU immigrants pay in more than they take out.

Great ... that's exactly as it ought to be, so as we are excluding A&E, it's all a question of referred patients then.

You see, this is where I beg to differ and where I almost start agreeing with Cameron and his speech today which upon peeling back the layers is severely limited to what he wishes to achieve by means of current EU rules.

However,

I don't agree that A&E services should be free of charge to non UK citizens.

They aren't even free to UK citizens, just try walking in there and asking for emergency dental treatment and see if you get anything more than a packet of paracetamol and an instruction to ring a dentist, that you'll have to pay for - or more to the point see if you don't get an invoice should you ever be unfortunate enough to need an ambulance after a car wreck.

And if you are taken ill while abroad in the EU you will be entitled to reciprocal basic health care in your EU country but that will vary dramatically depending on which country you are in - try being ill in Menorca for instance and see if you get free treatment, heres a clue, don't try it, just take my word for it, you'll be charged a consultation fee which you then get told to claim back from your insurance.

Whilst I wouldn't suggest anything as vulgar as asking the foreigner under the bus if he has any insurance papers on him, there is plenty of opportunity at every A&E admission to ask the relevant questions, they manage it in all other EU countries and in the USA without it getting in the way of emergency treatment.

The reciprocal arrangements with EEA countries mean you you get health care on the same terms as their citizens (which is not usually free). As you say, need to pay up front and hope to get back from your travel insurers. In some countries, eg Germany there is more than one type of hospital - so if you go / get taken to a private one rather than a state one the bills will be extremely expensive.

So, I guess to comply with EU law if Cameron is going to start charging EU citizens for NHS care he'll need to charge UK citizens the same.

Spain is the same as Germany with a two tier system, its fair enough that a UK citizen should get the basic level only and its why I ALWAYS take out travel insurance even within the EU, but even that doesn't mean you're not going to pay for treatment because most policies have an excess - so for instance ten years ago when my youngest got an ear infection from a hotel swimming pool a consultation with a local GP so that we could obtain antibiotics cost fifty euro, which by coincidence was the level of my excess too.

Fifty quid to see a GP in his local surgery, would make you stop and think if it applied in the UK wouldn't it ?

Usually healthy people going to GPs because they have a cold should pay. If you go in the winter it's full of youngish people sneezing and coughing. I have had to bite my tongue a few times!

Does that actually happen, seriously?
I wouldn't know having never been to mine for 25ish years.

How much, would you like to hazard a guess, has the Dally feminine side cost the NHS with their mental instability?

Yes.

Alot.

Tell Nigel Farage (aka a less likeable Homer Simpson).

He was on Newsnight last night and he was as unbelievable as ever. When asked had he met any immigrants who were sponging off the state in the way he accuses the answer was no "but that doesn't mean there aren't any" which would be fair comment if he wasn't the leader of a political party. When challenged that instead of relying on hearsay UKIP commissioned some research he was dismissive of the idea. Equally dismissive of such research that doesn't agree with his position. He'd rather rely on (as he said on Newsnight) conversations he had in the pub "minutes earlier" as definitive proof immigration is at the root of most of our economic ills.

I wish his opponents would get after him aggressively rather than letting him frame the terms of the debate. Cameron won't because half his party are as big a bunch of xenophobes as Farage is and the rest of the political establishment hasn't worked out how to counter the simplistic popularism the likes for Farage and (to give another example) Boris Johnson espouse.

Doesn't happen at my local GP practice.
For the fairly mundane stuff like colds, the appointments dragon on the front desk only gives appointments that are so far in the future that most things have got better by the time the appointment comes round.

It's a wonder she doesn'tell them to fook off and don't come back until you're really ill.
I'd be tempted too.

I saw it, he was dressed like a WW2 spiv, pretty apt really considering his political outlook

Dally really needs to move.

All these things that happen to him that don't seem to happen to anyone else in the country.

Truly astounding, it's amazing how these things manage to fit in with his personal bigotry.

If everybody stopped ignoring their symptoms and didn't go to their GP would it really save that much money?

The GP is paid anyway, if loads of people go it just means you might have to wait a bit longer on the day and the GP will get through the appointments quicker.

If people stop going then symptoms get missed and cost more to treat down the line it doesn't effect a saving.

There is an alternative that they could be pushing though which is in the first case go to a pharmacist, you don't need an appointment, just turn up at the pharmacy and ask to see the pharmacist, describe your symptoms and they can give you professional advice, they will tell you if you need to see a GP or if you can just take something from their pharmacy (the usual with minor symptoms).

Quote ="El Barbudo"Doesn't happen at my local GP practice. For the fairly mundane stuff like colds, the appointments dragon on the front desk only gives appointments that are so far in the future that most things have got better by the time the appointment comes round.'" My local practices have been consolidated into brand new facilities, including the ability to book your appointment online via www.myvisiononline.co.uk. The dragon on the front desk has no say and any fookwit can book an appointment. Quote ="WIZEB"Does that actually happen, seriously? I wouldn't know having never been to mine for 25ish years.'" Yes, it does. Easily seen in most GP waiting rooms. I don't go often but a poorly and pregnant wife means I've seen my share recently. Also, I was hit hard by both sickness and flu over Xmas, the sickness was't too bad (a breeze compared to Norovirus a few years ago), but the flu was a proper b*stard. I know there's nothing can really be done for either condition so looked after myself as best I could. After a week of sickness and 3 weeks of flu I then started with chest problems. Nearly died of croup as a child so chest infections tend to hit me hard - ended up visiting the local NHS drop-in and it was hammered. I would estimate probably a quarter were concerned parents with their kids, and the majority of the rest were flu or cold sufferers for whom the Dr can do nothing, but yet they turn up wanting antibiotics - which do nothing for flu.

Quote ="El Barbudo"Doesn't happen at my local GP practice. For the fairly mundane stuff like colds, the appointments dragon on the front desk only gives appointments that are so far in the future that most things have got better by the time the appointment comes round.'" My local practices have been consolidated into brand new facilities, including the ability to book your appointment online via www.myvisiononline.co.uk. The dragon on the front desk has no say and any fookwit can book an appointment. Quote ="WIZEB"Does that actually happen, seriously? I wouldn't know having never been to mine for 25ish years.'" Yes, it does. Easily seen in most GP waiting rooms. I don't go often but a poorly and pregnant wife means I've seen my share recently. Also, I was hit hard by both sickness and flu over Xmas, the sickness was't too bad (a breeze compared to Norovirus a few years ago), but the flu was a proper b*stard. I know there's nothing can really be done for either condition so looked after myself as best I could. After a week of sickness and 3 weeks of flu I then started with chest problems. Nearly died of croup as a child so chest infections tend to hit me hard - ended up visiting the local NHS drop-in and it was hammered. I would estimate probably a quarter were concerned parents with their kids, and the majority of the rest were flu or cold sufferers for whom the Dr can do nothing, but yet they turn up wanting antibiotics - which do nothing for flu.

UK Citizens are charged for it already via income tax and national insurance contributions.

The words "at point of care" are crucial in this argument