Elsewhere, WIZEN posted the following:



Now obviously he was being tongue in cheek, but it raises an interesting subject and one that I didn't want to get involved with on that thread.

As a country, we seem to have gone from the extreme of 'stiff upper lip' to a sort of communal weeping and wailing. The example of Princess Diana's death and funeral is perhaps the extreme. But we've seen in the last week or so what happens when someone makes even mild criticism of Hillsborough campaigners/commemorations.

The on-pitch heart attack of Fabrice Muamba brought forth a swell of public widespread emotion and, apparently, religious fervour.

We've seen vigils for all sorts of things/people in a way that would not previously have happened.

So ...

Why are such things happening?

Now, to clarify a couple of points. I think, in the Muamba case, there was a lot of genuine shock. a) because it happened on live TV and b) because he's a supposedly fit (ie healthy) young man. But that does not explain the sudden apparent explosion in religious sentiment. Personally, I found it shocking myself and I have mentioned it more than once on social media – but I didn't suddenly start to pray or urge others to.

Second, it clearly isn't just a 'Liverpool thing' – so we <b>ain't</b> going down that route on this thread.

Personally, I remember exactly where I was when Hillsborough occurred and I remember talking to a fellow football fan on the Monday (neither of us a Liverpool supporter) and our mutual reaction being: 'There but for the grace of god go I'. I signed the petition to have the files on Hillsbrough released. But I cannot see why some people would get so upset at the idea that it's ridiculous to refuse to play (work) on the anniversary of an event, when we quite clearly do not extend that to plenty of other tragedies and disasters. Quite seriously – what would be the reaction if London's Tube and bus drivers refused to work every 7/7?

The Diana thing was utterly weird. With Hillsborough, it's mostly people who feel a real and personal connection with the city/club, yet how many people had ever even met Diana? I watched the cortege out of curiosity and there were people keening – you could hear it.

Then, of course, the [iDaily Mail[/i had to try to drum up something even remotely comparable when the Queen Mum popped her clogs.

Weirder and weirder.

What's it all about?

Is this a kind of collective response to the demise of other collective, communal experiences, such as organised religion?

It isn't just a result of communications technology and the enormous growth of social media – Hillsborough predates that, as does Diana's death.

Is it bread and circuses, manufactured by – someone? – to distract us?

Is it some general weakening of 'moral fibre'?

Is it part of a culture that, in modern times at least, never seems to do things with anything but extremes – just as, say, in terms of sex, we seem to combine prudery and prurience and avoid any sense of pragmatism or common sense.

I really don't know the answers and find it all makes me shake my head.

So take it away.

What about the wailing and beating themselves on the head in some asian and african countries that you sometimes see on the news. I suppose it is about the culture of the individual countries. Often in this country children will be told by their parents/teachers to stop crying when they are hurt or upset. Whether this encourages the stiff upper lip idea I don't know. Not sure of the reasons behind the examples you used. Maybe if Brits keep surpressing their emotions then it may all pour out at once in an outburst

I believe the phenomena Mintball refers to has become known as 'grief-whoring'.

There was a fabulous article in The Times about this last week. I would link to it, but said paper has gone pay per subscription.

The stuff about the Bolton footballer was ridiculous. The overwhelming majority of people didn't know who he was, and the idea that 'everyone was praying for him' was complete nonsense. The Titanic is equally nonsensical. People going on some memorial cruise and crying their eyes out for some distant great aunt who they never met. Quite why anyone would want to go on such a cruise is beyond me, and most who did had no link whatsoever to anyone on the ship.

Whilst on the subject of public displays of (often inappropriate and garish) emotion, don't even get me started on roadshide shrines. Someone could make a mint selling portable, instantly deployable roadside shrines. The pack could include a teddy bair, a bunch of fake flowers and a cheap crucifix.

That is a really interesting one about the Titanic – I mean of course it's interesting, but it does seem astonishing that we appear so obsessed with it. It's hardly the worst maritime disaster ever. That's not to say it should be forgotten, but treated like this?

I've seen roadside shrines oin other countries, where it's actually culturally normal. But the idea of them over here is strange. See all the sales of flowers – and indeed, in London, even bikes and white paint.

The nearest I got to public emotion was sat in a pub with my long lost sister who I hadn't seen for 35 or so years but tyo be honest I did cry after she'd gone but that was because of the length of time and I didn't want het to see me crying.

But in relation to public figures/tragedies I never have.

Can I begin my post by paying tribute to those brave men and women who are risking their lives for our country out in Afghanistan.

I think its a case of saying the 'right thing' so as not to be judged as lacking in some morals.

In an unwinnable war. They should be back home in the UK where they belong.

I don't really have much to add other than I too just don't understand any of it, I don't understand why Alan Davies thought he'd get away with his comments on Hillsborough, not that I disagree with them, I just don't understand why he seems so surprised at the selective outrage - or maybe he thought that its about time someone said something ?

I also wonder if Liverpool happened to have any games as late in the season as 29th May, whether they'd refuse to play on that date too, they probably should by their own script.

I wasn't in the country for the whole of the Diana thing and so watched it from afar with a sort of puzzled expression and wondering if it was me who had gone mad or whether I was the only sane one left in the world, like the bloke in "Day of the Triffids" who wakes up one morning to find he is the only one with sight.

Clearly newspapers and the TV "magazine style" daily programmes have their part to play in whipping up public grief for dead people who we thought we knew so well but actually hadn't a clue who they were, Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, Amy Winehouse, drug addicts and likely contributors to their own fatalities and yet feted like saints when their very predictable ends came - compare to Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, Brian Jones or any other musician from the 60s and 70s who died in similar circumstances, look up the press reports of the time and see what the journos said then.

The Princess Diana thing was pathetic. I heard those wailing on TV crying Diana, Diana !! and couldn't believe it as they didn't know her.

I was at college and working part time for Boots when Diana met her end. The reaction of some of the older staff was laughable. Never before or since have I felt so compelled to violently shake middle-aged women and shout "fu<king grow up, you stupid cow" in their faces.

Completely agree.

Straight up question: Why do people feel the need to post RIP threads on The Sin Bin? Most of these threads are nothing but people posting a short condolence about someone they have never met or had anything to do with.

It this some sort of shared grief mentality, sort of like people feel closer to the event if they post online about it?

I just don't get any of it. I do think the press vastly overhype it though, because it makes good TV/images for papers. I was living in London during Diana's funeral, and most people I know couldn't have given a toss.

Your should be ashamed of yourself with these disgraceful views, those soldiers are dying to allow you the right to free speech, if you love Saddam so much why not move to Iran and live with the Taliban.

Fully agree regarding these threads. If people were talking about their memories of the person or their work, fair enough, but most are just along the lines of "so sad, RIP", or something equally pointless.

There are many factors involved, so no simple answer is possible.

But one of these factors is undoubtedly the persistent and determined dumbing down of the population, whereby 1950s 11+ level is now degree level, nobody can fail, nobody can be refused anything cos it's discrimination innit, another is young kids brought (or dragged) up in a culture of being stuck in front of dumbed-down utterly mind-numbing TV and video games all day with no actual upbringing as such and little meaningful contact with any human are being raised with a huge hole where social intercourse, morality and relationships used to be.

One outcome is big babies, who scream at the top of their lungs when upset by the slightest thing. Because they haven't yet learned to do anything else, and haven't developed any sense of proportion, or of personal restraint or responsibility.

Why should he feel ashamed? He has stated 2 facts that the vast majority agree with. you have stated 1, about free speech and dying which is absolute ballocks, which came from some mp trying to make anti-war demonstrators feel guilty about their thoughts. Also, Saddam, ims, was Iraqi, not Iranian and the Taleban are too be found in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Apologies in advance if your message was sent in jest.

Regarding Hillsborough, I was there, and Heysel. I think it is down to LFC sending a request to the FA not to play games on that date more than refusing to do so. Personally, I don't see a problem with playing on the anniversary, but an awful lot do, and the club listens to them, especially now, considering the truth is not too far off being revealed.( Depending on how many statements have been shredded)

And as for that parasite Diana Spencer, don't get me started. Ims, 2 other people were kileed that night aswell. Anyone remember their names?

At last someone attempts an explanation.
Well done FA for reading the original post.

i think the idea is to come up with possible reasons for this phenomenon. A point lost on the ''I think it's a load of bollox.'' brigade.

Now that should liven it up.

Spoken like a true patriot

You'll probably find the exact opposite when Thatcher pops her clogs

Henri Paul (who I think was still at Wigan before joining Bradford, must have been moonlighting as a chauffeur).
Dodi Fayed (heir to a debt mountain).

Didn't the 'if you love [iSaddam[/i so much [... move to [iIran[/i and live with the [iTaliban[/i' give it away?

Oooh, I think you get a prize now.

You need something like the death of Diana every now and again to remind you that not everyone thinks the same way you do.

Back in Victorian days I understand that public displays of personal grief were the norm. For exapmle, widows would wear black for a full year and would correrspond using black-edged paper. So, I guess that the stiff upper lip attitude may have come about via the carnage of WW1 - wouldn't want morale slipping due to millions pouring out their grief. That would have continued on to WW2 and beyond. For all but the oldest in our society WW2 has become a thing of history rather than personal experience. Nowadays, personal grief is supposed to be overcome with maybe a week off work or less (whereas the actual grief lasts much longer). So, maybe the outpourings of public grief for the well-known are an expression of suppressed private grief?