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| Will Cameron go crawling back to join the party or will we leave the EU for good?
In either case we are entering interesting and possibly turbulent times.
Has Cameron shown his inexperience and cocked-up Britain's future completely?
Has he called it right and done the opposite?
Does he have a Plan B like jooning the US / Canada economic bloc?
Has he played a blinder in terms of short-term UK politics? Could he lose Lib-Dem support, call a snap election and get a big Tory majority on the back of his actiion / inaction?
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| Only time will tell, but 1 thing is for sure, the working man will be even more worse off.
What was he voting for? Does anyone know? and who actually cares?
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| Quote ="Live Wired"Only time will tell, but 1 thing is for sure, the working man will be even more worse off.
What was he voting for? Does anyone know? and who actually cares?'" They wanted to tax every interbank transaction in Europe.
Dave quite rightly said 'Hang on 10% of our GDP is in the finanical sector and if you do that they will all bugger off to the US or Asia so here have my veto'
The Other Europeans Hungary aside said 'Well we all agree so we will do it without you'.
TBH Cameron had little choice as numerous governments have drove us to relay on the financial sector far to much and if he went along with it we would have been royally screwed.
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| Christ, this is a first.... Cameron getting something right.
Bet he can't manage two on the bounce.
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| He's finally shown he has some balls at least. Only time will tell what the effect will be.
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| So the European governments wanted to tax the banks, but Britain did not?
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| Quote ="Live Wired"So the European governments wanted to tax the banks, but Britain did not?'" Somewhat yes.
But from what I can gather it would have been used to prop up the Euro.
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| Well personally, I don't see a problem with that. Tax and death the only certainties.
Does that mean the banks/ big business run the country, and not the politicians? If so, what is the point of voting? ( i don't btw)
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| Quote ="Anakin Skywalker"Somewhat yes.
But from what I can gather it would have been used to prop up the Euro.'"
Effectively taking money out of British banks and giving it to EU banks.
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| Quote ="Live Wired"Well personally, I don't see a problem with that. Tax and death the only certainties.
Does that mean the banks/ big business run the country, and not the politicians? If so, what is the point of voting? ( i don't btw)'" If the money was to be returned to the taxpayers (US) I would say yes to a small tax but we are talking about taxing the banks to bail out an ill concived currency that we are not even part of (And wasn't that a good call!!).
A currency that didnt even do due dilligence on all of its members (How Greece got in I will never know something they have now found out to their cost), Why should we risk 10% of our GDP on that?
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| The UK has now effectively taken its football home from the playground and said it doesnt want to play with the other boys and girls unless it does what it wants.
The other boys and girls of course have access to their own football and will play on regardless.
The UK will therefore be forced to stand alone with no friends, or else come crawling back to the playground and agree to play the games that all the other boys and girls have decided upon.
For me this is Camerons Chamberlain moment, he will return home saying he has saved Britain, when in reality he has just delayed the inevitable.
Welcome to LITTLE BRITAIN
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| Quote ="Thorntonsaint"Effectively taking money out of British banks and giving it to EU banks.'" Yep.
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| Quote ="The Chair Maker"The UK has now effectively taken its football home from the playground and said it doesnt want to play with the other boys and girls unless it does what it wants.
The other boys and girls of course have access to their own football and will play on regardless.
The UK will therefore be forced to stand alone with no friends, or else come crawling back to the playground and agree to play the games that all the other boys and girls have decided upon.
For me this is Camerons Chamberlain moment, he will return home saying he has saved Britain, when in reality he has just delayed the inevitable.
Welcome to LITTLE BRITAIN'" How has he?
Any change to our version of the EU treaty requires a referendum that is on the statute books.
We all know what the outcome of that will be.
That is why successive governments have been so reluctant to call one.
Oh and BTW last time I checked Switzerland wasn't in the EU and they have a higher percentage of their GDP being exports than we do.
Also as of me writing this we are still the 6th biggest economy in the world so maybe we are not so little eh!
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| I'm entirely in favour of a transaction tax – but if enacted in the UK, it should be used to pay off the deficit and fund growth-boosting projects (and avoid the cuts that, apart from anything else, increase unemployment).
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| Quote ="Thorntonsaint"Effectively taking money out of British banks and giving it to EU banks.'"
Most of the banks trading out of the City are not British they are foreign owned. The money made is repatriated to offshore tax havens or to the USA.
I support a financial tax on the city. Its a disgrace that those who caused the crises should not have to pay for it. We are the 99%
The Europeans know that it is the casino banking system based in the UK that has corrupted the individual nations like Greece, by selling them usurious loans that have now destroyed their economies.
The Financial transaction tax is nothing more than a war reparation.
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| Quote ="Anakin Skywalker"If the money was to be returned to the taxpayers (US) I would say yes to a small tax but we are talking about taxing the banks to bail out an ill concived currency that we are not even part of (And wasn't that a good call!!).
A currency that didnt even do due dilligence on all of its members (How Greece got in I will never know something they have now found out to their cost), Why should we risk 10% of our GDP on that?'"
So basically, Germany and France are the big cheeses and the rest are useless mickey mouse states ( Ireland especially), whom France and Germany wanted to screw and be in- debted to?
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| Quote ="The Chair Maker"... The Europeans ...'"
That includes us.
Quote ="The Chair Maker"... know that it is the casino banking system based in the UK that has corrupted the individual nations like Greece, by selling them usurious loans that have now destroyed their economies...'"
Then again, there's the little case of Goldman Sachs managing to pass the accounts of Greece so that it could enter the euro on a false basis.
And the fact that the EU effectively enshrines neo-liberalism.
And the other – and not remotely unrelated – fact that Merkel and Sarkozy were certainly looking at applying rules that would, in effect, ban Keynesian economic solutions.
And the other point that without any (as far as I know) political interference from the UK on this score, countries are now putting unelected bankers in charge.
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| Quote ="Scooter Nik"Christ, this is a first.... Cameron getting something right...'"
I'm undecided on that.
The new tax would be 0.05%.
We already charge 0.5% stamp duty ... so the total would be 0.55% .
Can't see that would drive everyone overseas.
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| Quote ="Live Wired"So basically, Germany and France are the big cheeses and the rest are useless mickey mouse states ( Ireland especially), whom France and Germany wanted to screw and be in- debted to?'" Yes
We are not in the Euro so would have not benefited from the cash this would have raised.
So we would have risked 10% of our GDP for no gain what so ever.
Sounds like a good call to me.
Infact we may get banks hoping ovet the channel to get away from it.
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| Quote ="El Barbudo"I'm undecided on that.
The new tax would be 0.05%.
We already charge 0.5% stamp duty ... so the total would be 0.55% .
Can't see that would drive everyone overseas.'" I can because they area set of greedy ****'s and wouldn't want to pay any extra.
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| Quote ="Anakin Skywalker"Somewhat yes.
But from what I can gather it would have been used to prop up the Euro.'"
From what I gather tax raised in the Euro zone would go to the Eurozone, tax raised in UK would go to UK Exchequer.
The UK is not joining the fiscal union.
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Quote ="Anakin Skywalker"How has he?
Any change to our version of the EU treaty requires a referendum that is on the statute books.
We all know what the outcome of that will be.
That is why successive governments have been so reluctant to call one.
Oh and BTW last time I checked Switzerland wasn't in the EU and they have a higher percentage of their GDP being exports than we do.'"
Over half of our trade goes with Europe, if they make laws we will have to fall in line with them otherwise we will not be allowed to sell our goods and services there as we will be breaking their laws but they wont be breaking our law.
Lets take an hypothetical example of a European rule being enacted limiting a mortgage to 3 times the salary of the people taking out the mortgage and requiring a 10% deposit.
Britain lets say has not signed up to this rule and says the free market should decide.
The other Europeans could therefore make it an offence for any banks with branches within the signatory countries from offering lets say 100% mortgages, even if those mortgages are only being sold in the UK.
The effect would then be that the big banks would then need to decide do they only trade in the UK market, and be able to continue to offer 100% mortgages, or do they trade across Europe and have restrictions placed upon them.
At this moment in time there is an example of a European treaty that Britain hasnt signed upto having an influence on the UK, and that is the Shengen agreement. Check out the Lille Loophole which makes our border checks completely redundant.
www.scotsman.com/news/uk/lille_l ... _1_1999897
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Quote ="Anakin Skywalker"How has he?
Any change to our version of the EU treaty requires a referendum that is on the statute books.
We all know what the outcome of that will be.
That is why successive governments have been so reluctant to call one.
Oh and BTW last time I checked Switzerland wasn't in the EU and they have a higher percentage of their GDP being exports than we do.'"
Over half of our trade goes with Europe, if they make laws we will have to fall in line with them otherwise we will not be allowed to sell our goods and services there as we will be breaking their laws but they wont be breaking our law.
Lets take an hypothetical example of a European rule being enacted limiting a mortgage to 3 times the salary of the people taking out the mortgage and requiring a 10% deposit.
Britain lets say has not signed up to this rule and says the free market should decide.
The other Europeans could therefore make it an offence for any banks with branches within the signatory countries from offering lets say 100% mortgages, even if those mortgages are only being sold in the UK.
The effect would then be that the big banks would then need to decide do they only trade in the UK market, and be able to continue to offer 100% mortgages, or do they trade across Europe and have restrictions placed upon them.
At this moment in time there is an example of a European treaty that Britain hasnt signed upto having an influence on the UK, and that is the Shengen agreement. Check out the Lille Loophole which makes our border checks completely redundant.
www.scotsman.com/news/uk/lille_l ... _1_1999897
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| If the banks and traders will all go "elsewhere", is this "elsewhere" the same "elsewhere" that all the top execs of footsie 100 companies will go to, if we don't continue letting them pay themselves what they want?
And if the banks do go "elsewhere", they'd better make sure they don't go to Hong Kong, Mombai, Johannesburg or any number of other financial centres where they already have a transaction tax.
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Quote ="Mintball"That includes us.
Then again, there's the little case of Goldman Sachs managing to pass the accounts of Greece so that it could enter the euro on a false basis.
And the fact that the EU effectively enshrines neo-liberalism.
And the other – and not remotely unrelated – fact that Merkel and Sarkozy were certainly looking at applying rules that would, in effect, ban Keynesian economic solutions.
And the other point that without any (as far as I know) political interference from the UK on this score, countries are now putting unelected bankers in charge.'"
The EU's increasing liberalism, i wouldnt call it neo, certainly not in the American sense of the term, has been designed to open up traditionally nationalistic markets to fair trade.
It is however i agree having some unwelcome consequences. For example the NHS is seen by some in Europe as a state run monopoly that is hindering competition within the European medical services industry. Hence the pressure to privatise the NHS
www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... vatisation
The imposition of unelected commissioners to run Italy and Greece is of great concern to me. Its another reason why we need Britain as part of Europe rather than sitting on the sidelines. An influential Britain should be pushing for the democratisation of Europe, the UK unlike most of Europe has a long standing tradition of free speech.
When you consider that in the last 100 years Germany, Greece, Spain, Italy and all the former Eastern block states, have been under dictatorial rule, you do worry about how this affects national attitudes to understanding freedom, and democratically accountable public bodies.
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Quote ="Mintball"That includes us.
Then again, there's the little case of Goldman Sachs managing to pass the accounts of Greece so that it could enter the euro on a false basis.
And the fact that the EU effectively enshrines neo-liberalism.
And the other – and not remotely unrelated – fact that Merkel and Sarkozy were certainly looking at applying rules that would, in effect, ban Keynesian economic solutions.
And the other point that without any (as far as I know) political interference from the UK on this score, countries are now putting unelected bankers in charge.'"
The EU's increasing liberalism, i wouldnt call it neo, certainly not in the American sense of the term, has been designed to open up traditionally nationalistic markets to fair trade.
It is however i agree having some unwelcome consequences. For example the NHS is seen by some in Europe as a state run monopoly that is hindering competition within the European medical services industry. Hence the pressure to privatise the NHS
www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... vatisation
The imposition of unelected commissioners to run Italy and Greece is of great concern to me. Its another reason why we need Britain as part of Europe rather than sitting on the sidelines. An influential Britain should be pushing for the democratisation of Europe, the UK unlike most of Europe has a long standing tradition of free speech.
When you consider that in the last 100 years Germany, Greece, Spain, Italy and all the former Eastern block states, have been under dictatorial rule, you do worry about how this affects national attitudes to understanding freedom, and democratically accountable public bodies.
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| Quote ="The Chair Maker"Lets take an hypothetical example of a European rule being enacted
...
The other Europeans could therefore make it an offence ...'"
1. We are still a member of the EU last I heard
2. They don't make anything an offence (not that given half a chance they wouldn't like to [url=http://www.ukipmeps.org/blog_view_5289_Brussels-to-beef-up-EU-criminal-policy.html e.g.[/url and, given the insidious creep into all areas of control, undoubtedly if not checked, eventually will)
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