Is this your assumption / wish / dream / hope ?

For your statement to have any gravitas, Article 50 would have to be invoked in the next few days, prior to the Supreme Court verdict in the new year.

its according to the EU's chief negotiator , by october 2018

Once again, you seem to be riding round on your Cherry Picker



There could be a fair amount of slippage to the start date too, if the Supreme Court agrees with the original decision in the High Court.

I dont think that he has too much to say on this.
More like a wasp hovering over your pint, but it keeps coming back.

I try to understand & respect all posters opinions on the subject, it interests me greatly (what with the near fifty, fifty split in the nation an'all).

But the poster in question appears to enjoy either posting random stuff just to enjoy getting a bite, or because they actually believe some of the bull the right wing papers spout?

But to digress, do you know what appalls me most in this sorry debacle?

That the majority of those that could be bothered, actually voted the same way as someone who’s a member of U.K.I.P.

To us a business term, UKIP have tapped into a market that was being ignored by the other parties and built their campaign of fear. Some of this is genuine but, most is whipped up hysteria by UKIP, The Tory press and some by extremists.
Also, Cameron, although he disappeared faster that you can say "goodbye", by coming back from his tour of the EU with nothing, shot himself in the foot and he was clearly the wrong person to head the "remain" campaign.
Rightly or wrongly, the major topic of the debate was immigration and this clearly hasn't been dealt with, with numbers on the increase and at record levels.
Most people are happy with a level of immigration and there are certain sectors, health for instance, where we are desperately short of qualified staff but, to pretend that immigration is under control, when the election pledge was to reduce the number to "tens of thousands" was reckless.
Despite millions of people saying they knew what they were voting for is laughable, as the government had no idea what the next move should be.
Some want a big wall building up around the island that we live on and others would be happy with a "tweak" to where we were pre the referendum.
The one certainty is that society has become less tolerant of one another and when the dust finally settles, this will be one of the biggest problems for us all to deal with.

yes it then has to be finalised by the EU meaning march 2019 ! sorry

all things going to plan ofcourse which may not happen with maybe further hurdles being thrown in what will eventually happen

But what would have happened had the referendum thrown up a reverse result where 52% voted to remain? Would everyone be carrying on regardless like there weren't any problems in the first place? Clearly there are problems and they're not going to go away any time soon.

Certainly, the symptoms are there, but is the cure for them an EU exit?

There are problems with the EU, no doubt about it but, when the campaigning is done in the way that Farage went about it.
Saying how "worried he would be if a group of Romanians moved in next door" and blaming the EU for the UK immigration "crisis", he managed to simply ignore (or forget) the 250,000 people that come to the UK from outside the EU, who we already have "control" over.
Things generally aer going to get ugly in the EU as some of the other nations try and tackle the conundrum of free movement which, right now is, just impractical and further exasperated by the situation in the middle east, which the UK helped create.

Yes according to the majority of those that voted. It's as black and white as that. Maybe a failure in the yes/no referendum approach. Could we have had more options?

Yep, our leaving the E.U. will cure all the problems of the disaffected at some point in the rosie new dawn.

I think the number of options was plenty, considering the amount of mentally challenged people who managed to tick a box.

I have an opinion on what our negotiation aims should be.

But a few months on I have literally no clue what they will be. Not even in the broadest outline. Now I appreciate the difficulty and complexity of the situation, and that Leave represented an end, rather than a specific new direction, but really... no signals, no coherent messages at all?

The 'playing cards close to the chest', and 'red, white and blue Brexit' stuff - Andrea Leadsom (sp?) got slated for that sort of poop, during their leadership campaign. And it stinks of bluff, of desperately trying to buy time, from a PM with no realistic options that will please a majority of her electorate. I think it might be an insoluble problem. Somebody at some point will have make a decision and whatever it is, it'll be political suicide.

We've seen very worrying things happening surrounding the whole Brexit issue.

- A demonisation and belittling of immigrants
- A demonisation and belittling of other minorities
- Unprecedented attacks on the courts and judges by the media and by government and some politicians
- an unwillingness of most media and politicians to stand up for anything except what they perceive to be the "majority" view.
- an apparent willingness to allow government to take away people's rights and laws without votes in parliament.

Regardless of what anyone's view on whether we should be in the EU or not (personally I think we should be in but leading the change to the EU such as limiting membership of certain nations until they're sufficiently developed economically) these kind of things should worry anybody. They do not bode well for the future.

Racism has been alive and kicking in this country it is no worse since the vote than it was before a few isolated cases make it bit more visible.

Why shouldn't the judges be criticised are they above it? Plenty of press calling when EU law was used to prevent Abu from extradition.

The quality of MPs is at an all time low and the public are not fools - they don't want to be told what is best for them by a bunch self interested incompetents with very questionable behaviours.

Corbyn is prepared to go against the flow the fact his ideas are barmy is besides the point.

There are two problems with that criticism of the judges, imo.

Firstly, a good deal of it was personal rather than based on the legal correctness of decision. Even if we assume that being in public life makes somebody fair game, then at best these members of the press were missing the point. If the press think the law is bad, as many did with the EU extradition thing, criticisize the law not the judges. Of course, if they think the law had been poorly interpreted that's a different matter, but I didn't see that argument, so presumably it was weak. Or chucking vitriol is easier and shifts more copies.

Secondly, an independent judiciary is bound is by the law, not (directly) the will of the people. Democracy isn't a trump card in all constitutional matters.

That many judges are over privileged wazzocks, I'd accept. But that doesn't necessarily make their decisions wrong.

Your first point is utter nonesense.

There has been a huge change in attitudes, both during and post referendum and to brush the increase in racist comments aside as "isolated cases" is quite worrying in itself.
The whole tone used by Farage was divisive and bordering on racist, indeed, he has apologised for some of his own comments, for being over the top.
Whilst all of the mud slinging during the campaign may make decent newspaper headlines, we all have to move on and live together after the dust has settled and this has been made far more difficult over the past 6 month or so.
Unless you are one the many people at the sharp end of the comments, it's difficult to know exactly what it is like to be an immigrant in the UK.
Regarding the Judges, of course it's ok to question them but, they rule on points of law and they are and have to be outside the political world.
The British press are the main protagonists of our brave new world. However, unfortunately, there is so much bias, both in the manner which they report the new and the agenda that their owners are working towards that, most of the news, reported in the daily papers is nothing more than their personal propaganda.

Hate crimes rose by 41% the month after Brexit.



The Daily Mail were calling the three High Court Judges enemies of the people.



The quality of our M.P's & the Labour leaders views are surely irrelevant as to whether we leave the E.U or not?

We don't hear much about it now - race violence seems to have returned to usual levels. I would suggest there is significant amounts of inter-immigrant violence - how much of that was in your 41%

The quality of the MPs has everything to do with us leaving the EU - the vote was as much a protest vote against the establishment as anything. You have arrogant Labour MPs David Lamy who has come out and said he knows best, can the vote. No wonder these guys are so despised.

The majority of those who voted wanted us to leave the EU if that doesn't happen on a technicality of the law then democracy will take a blow and it eventually back fire.

Back to point 1.

Again, really ??
So you think that all of the racists and bigots that, following the referendum vote, thought it was ok to tell people to "go home", have suddenly realised the error of their ways and stopped, WOW.

No I don't those people were racists/bigots before the vote - the vote didn't suddenly give them clarity of thought and purpose.

The vote gave them a platform for a few weeks that has gone away - business as usual.

I see quite the opposite a focus on making sure those already here are able to remain after we exit the EU - much greater ground swell of opinion to deliver on that than those wanting to send them all home.

Spot on.

You're kind of floating a mixed message here.

On the one hand your saying people voted to leave the E.U. as a protest against the establishment, then it's about wanting to leave the E.U.

Either way the majority of those that voted will get their wish, but they still voted the same way as a member of U.K.I.P.

Respect.

17.4million voted to leave for a combination of different reasons and many of these had made their minds up well before the referendum and include voters from all the different parties. This number could well have been higher but for the establishment orchestrated Project Fear campaign which must have had some success as the Leave side never offered any positive reasons to stay and the EU is crumbling before our eyes.

Equally, the figure could have been a whole lot lower , had it not been for the lies trotted out by Farage's team.
We're all waiting for the cash injection into the NHS that will never materialise (certainly ano as a result of any savings on EU contributions).
Also, had the remain team not used Cameron and Osborne, two good reasons for voting "the other way".
Project Fear vs Project fingers crossed

Most of us are still waiting for the good news to come.