Indeed.
The cabinet does seem to be split on this issue and perhaps T. May could come out and tell local government employees how long their pay increases are going to be capped at 1%, which is a real terms cut every year fro the last 7.
It's disgraceful.

People working in the public sector of the economy usually have a job for life. Surely that counts for something. This country's economy in the next two years will suffer the biggest slump for years. Household debt is extremely high, borrowing on credit cards and high mortgage repayments is out of control. Not to mention all the dodgy car loan deals people have signed up for.
Also the majority of people have no savings whatsoever. The economy and the housing market is slowing down ,all it needs to push people over the edge is an interest rate rise.
So if I worked in the public sector I might thank my lucky stars I have a secure job.

If they have been in the Public Sector for a while, then yes. But most are agency staff on short/fixed term contracts without the old index linked pensions etc. BUT, why do ALL Public Sector employee's deserve a raise, it should be performance related like any other career.

For any industry to have wages effectively frozen for 7 years, with no end to that "freeze" is just wrong and whilst those who have been in local government for 20 years + may have superb pensions, that most of us can only dream of, this isn't the case for newcomers.
Personally, I wouldn't stay in that environment and would, as many appear to be doing, look for work elsewhere.
However, what really takes the pi$$ is when there are terrorist attacks and major incidents and we all expect those undervalued employees to go above and beyond to help us, whilst at the same time, telling them that they have to live on less and less (in real terms), I bet they love it.

Can you imagine taking a job and not getting a rise for 7 year +

AND on top of this, our beloved MP's happily took an inflation busting increases and this was partly to discourage them from fiddling their expenses.

Those public sector workers would have been sacked for doing the same but, we're happy to go along with such appalling double standards.

Then you get wally brains saying their pay should be 'performance related'. How do you mark the performance of an A&E nurse or firefighter? Would it be based on how many stitches a minute they can put into some artist's self-inflicted head wound or how many deliberately started fires they can put out in a week? For the hours and work these people put in, they can't be paid highly enough.

I think you will find there are millions of people working in the private sector that are struggling to get a 1% salary increase every year. Most increases are based on performance and not an automatic entitlement. The people getting the biggest increases will be those on the minimum wage. The idea that salary increases should be given regardless and at unaffordable levels doesn't make any kind of economic sense. If private businesses cannot afford an increase they don't give it and they are the very people providing much of the finance to support the public sector.

So in the private sector what happens - we move jobs if we are not happy with our T&Cs so there is nothing stopping the public sector employees doing the same. There are very few jobs in the public sector that a similar alternative is not available in the private sector - fire fighters is one but they are few and far between. The reality of the private sector might not suit a lot of these employees closeted by the state and the benefits outside of salary that simply don't exist in the private sector.

All the public expect the emergency services to do in an emergency is to do their job - the job they are trained to do training that has been paid for by us in the majority of cases. As far as I can see that is what happened at Grenfell - did the firefighters do more than they would have done at any other fire?

On the MPs I completely agree - nasty bunch of hypocrites.

Once a gain, you deliberately miss the point.
The main problem is not the 1% cap, it's the fact that there have been 2 years of a freeze plus, 5 years at 1% and no end in sight.
AS for "doing their job" yes, that is true but, after the london bridge attack, nurses were going in to cover, regardless of whether they should have been there which, does seem "above and beyond".

Finally, if we are agreeing that the "freeze" in wages is forcing people to look elsewhere, including the madness of going to an agency and then coming back to work in our hospitals on more money !!!!, where is the sense in that.
Ok, those who go down this route would sacrifice some pension rights etc but, it's just madness.

Whilst there may have been a case for austerity 7 years ago, to keep this kind of cap, indefinitely, is just wrong and maybe, this is one reason why so many NHS employees are from outside the UK and we are going down the route of "cheap" labour.

We have gone down the road of cheap labour because most people want to buy everything cheaply. It's a mindest that is destructive. Cheap holidays, cheap flights, cheap clothes, cheap goods,cheap food, cheap taxes. All part of a short-sighted outlook. We could start by refusing cheap flights and foreign holidays and spending that vast amount of money in the UK economy. Guess most will be too selfish though. In which case they have no cause to moan about the ramifications of their actions and selfishness.

Over the last few days plenty of information has been published to show that the public sector has not been affected as bad as the private sector. When the banks went pear shape thousands of people in the private sector lost jobs. Many people were forced to work shortened hours. Can't recall huge lay-offs in the public sector. As mentioned by other posters if you aren't happy with your job and conditions get another job. Something most people have done for years in the private sector.
Seems the unions and public sector workers want the best of both worlds, top wages plus job security. We all want that don't we unfortunately in the private sector it's not always available.

You have to admire the brass neck of people who suggest that Dr's, nurses, police officers and firefighters should work elsewhere if they don't like their T's and C's; the same people who will then moan when they can't get a GP appointment, be seen at hospital, or the police don't attend when they've been burgled; I do believe that arch Tory Sal, has complained about all three of those things on this very forum - but he blamed it on immigration and inefficiency, rather than chronic underfunding.

That we are even prepared to say out loud that if a nurse doesn't like the fact that s/he's had a significant real terms pay reduction over 7 years s/he should do something else, is a sad indictment of where the Tory ideology has taken us as a society; and if you needed any further proof that austerity was a choice rather than a necessity, look at the Tory MP's breaking ranks and calling for a reversal of the public sector pay freeze - the magic money tree has been located!

Bang on the money

Not all things can be run at a profit and not all jobs can be done by just anyone. Nursing being a good example. Huge gains in productivity have been made in the NHS yet there have been no rewards passed onto staff.

Things like Forensic Science and the Probation Service were sold off and both have resulted in much worse services and scandals to emerge. Some things simply can't be run properly without making a loss.

A couple of interesting graphs from twitter today on real wage increases/decreases (2007-15):

Look at all those stupid countries, who deliver a socialistic model of government based on collectivism and equality, with their wage growth far outstripping ours; idiots.

They may be delivering higher wages but, are they strong and stable ?

Looking at the graph, it could indicate that Poland is having to increase wages to slow the exodus to the UK ?

Unless that data is based on Polish earners in the UK!

I note you fail to mention that Poland receives the largest funding from the eu budget. Obviously it also does not pay into the eu, so one would assume that living standards should improve in that country. Likewise this also applies to several other countries.
Full marks to Poland in not accepting this invasion of economic migrants. This must be saving them thousands in not incurring costs to expand schools, medical facilities, translators etc etc. Any chance of indicating to me any successful long term socialist country. Unless you use the Diane Abbott yardstick of claiming chairman mao got an unjustified reputation, after all he only killed about sixty million people. Venezuela perhaps, or Cuba ,both countries loved by jezza, also to be fair to jezza he has not mentioned Venezuela for some time. Can't think why.

It cant be, according to the Daily Mail, they all work for nowt

I don't intend to rehash this discussion - I've never proposed pure socialism, and I've repeatedly listed many very successful countries that operate on a collective, socialistic model, which balances capitalism, with strong social programmes.

Re-read the thread - and look at the data you've been provided with.

Care to mention which capitalist countries, those without strong social policies, we should be following?

It was on twitter so must be accurate

I always value your occasional but insightful contributions.

Those figures have been available for some while - the fact that they've found their way onto Twitter is hardly an indictment of their verisimilitude; unless your new position is that any information that appears on there is immediately unreliable?

There is a huge difference between socialist countries and countries with strong social policies. Jezza and his side kicks are self admitted followers of Marx and all the disasters that accompanies that doctrine. You mention social polices ,this country has a pretty good record of social polices. A large section of the population pay nothing into the system, yet receive free medical care and education etc etc. That to me is perfectly correct, some poor souls have not much luck in life and we should as a society look after them. Unfortunately some of the population seemed to think welfare payments is a lifestyle choice and not a help out until things improve. If things are so bad in this country how come half the world want to settle in this country.
Jezza and Diane frequently claim we aren't building enough social housing, quite correct, although labour had enough chances having been in power for 13 years. Still if lots of immigrants are not happy with us and returning to whence they came from, we won't have a housing problem . Every cloud has a silver lining and all that.

I just like to pop along now and again to see if you're still ranting, taking FB and twitter as gospel for news and drinking Jezza's cool aid. You didn't disappoint.

As have never been burgled, have private health insurance and seldom ever use my GP I think your comments are b00locks TBH. What I did say was if people didn't abuse the NHS the funding it needs would be significantly less than now - but of course that doesn't suit your agenda so you choose to overlook it. Perhaps if some idiots didn't get drunk and fight on a Saturday night those that really need A&E would find it much easier to access the service?

Without public money these doctors & nurses would not be in a position to ply their trade so an amount of loyaty should be expected would not agree? I trained as an accountant with a big 4 firm but their clients paid for that so I had no issue moving on.

Tory MPs breaking rank doesn't appear to have had impact on the Government's desire to balance the books