If it was "only" a sporting matter I may agree with you but, this issue is way more important.
The number of people that I have spoken to since the vote, who have said that they didn't realise this or that would happen as a result of the vote is quite astonishing.
The fact that every product that comes into the EU has a tariff number which attract a certan level of import duty and that EVERY one of these has to be re negotiated, from baked beans to bananas to Bentey's, EVERY one.
But, no , some of the Tory "optimists" are still saying that we will have free access to the single market !!!
WHY would the EU give Britain preferential access, whilst still charging other countries (who also allow free movement), is just bonkers.
If this was allowed, the EU would cease to exist and although it may crumble as a result of Brexit, there is just no way we can cherry pick our requirements and the thought of Britain arranging separate trade deals with other nations and then being allowed to supply "cheap" goods into the EU is just laughable.
Who in their right minds would allow this to happen or, believe that it could happen ????

So we were trapped ?

Do you like being trapped ?

So every product we sell to the EU will require a separately negotiated tariff ? , fair enough

Every product they sell us will need a similar negotiated tariff , no worries

As for free movement of people , well it does need to be under our control with regards those coming into Britain , if the EU want to put controls on British citizens entering the EU , again , no worries

Why does free movement and tariffs need to be linked??

Will our trade deals with Australia, USA, India etc be linked to the number of people we are willing to let in?

Why aren't tariffs linked to your environmental performance, military spend...........

1/ They are linked within the EU because that is the deal that every member agrees to when joining the EU.

2/ We dont yet have independent deals with the USA, India, Australia yet but, bearing in mind that the EU is our largest market and they simply wong give the UK a preferential deal, especiallly IF we obtain cheaper tariff free raw materials or finished goods from India, China etc and then try to supply back into the EU, they will first of all protect their "members" just as they currently do.

3/ Tariff's are not linked to anything other than being applied to ALL goods brought into the EU.

I'm pleased that you have "no worries" about the products that the UK sells to the EU.

If your business depended on sales to the EU, you may think differently ?

Some politicians have tried to comfort the UK public by saying thet total trade with the EU is similar in both directions and therefore it makes sense not to have and "penalties" for trading with one another and whilst this may be true, the value of trade is approximately half of all the UK's exports but is no where near half of all exports out of the EU, therefore, in proportion, Britain has far, far more to lose.

Or goods supplied from the EU in reply/retaliation ? , those BMW,Audi's,Mercs and Volkswagens will get more expensive

Again as you suggest , we are trapped , or being held to ransom ?

You ok with that , is that what ' friends ' do ?

I wouldn't call it trapped at all.
We signed up to being a part of the EU and had a voice within there to influence the direction of the "organisation".
Without doubt, certain aspects of being a member have certainly helped the UK over the last 40 years, after all we keep hearing how well our country is doing within the world market, achieved whilst being part of the EU.

The end to the cold war, the falling of the Berlin wall, living in a free society, fee movement within the EU (especially for the 2 million plus Brits in Spain.
The main aspect, free trade is huge and only now as we try to unravel the UK from 40 years of ties, can we see just how embeded we have become.

Why the panic? France will vote in Le Pen and the EU will be finished. Its distintegration will hit the German economy hardest and we'll become, for a short while, Europe's economic powerhouse.

I think that when we voted to leave, we we deemed to be a fair bit lower down on the friends list.
Friends stick together, they dont walk away. Britain has walked away and we will get what we deserve.
The EU should look after the member nations, once we finally press the "eject" button, we have decided that we dont want to be "friends"

If you're so confident I suggest you put a lump on, currently at 5/2.

After the last two "shock" results I was tempted myself, but it sounds like after the first round of voting, those on the left will vote for the Republican to stop Le Pen at all cost.

However, stranger things have happened.

The organization evolved significantly between the UK joining the Common Market and where we are now. In that time there have been a variety of wheezes to get around democratic short comings. Perhaps if meaningful reform had been put on the table it wouldn't have come down to this, but nothing must threaten the gravy train.



Some have helped, some haven't.


The sun coming up in the morning, the wars in the Balkans, the Greek debt crisis...
Attributing stuff to the EU doesn't mean the EU was actually primarily responsible for it, it has had a positive impact in some places and a negative in others.



This is why I voted Remain, simply due to the pain of untangling the UK from this sleazy and corrupt organisation. For 40 years the EU and its previous incarnations has been insidious in ingratiating itself into every layer of society (paid for by our own money), making client groups out of businesses and politicians of all types and stripes. EU regulation permeates almost every aspect of domestic regulation, regardless of need, politicians and civil servants from your local council up to government ministries operate within a system where the EU's influence extends. I was a district councilor on a small district councilor, a few years ago we couldn't award a small services contract to the best supplier because an EU rule said that the bidder had to have a certain type of EU accreditation to sell to local authorities, none of this had anything to do with the company's actual capability to deliver, they were doing it for other non-local authority customers, but as a small company the best supplier couldn't afford the high cost of the EU "accreditation" (i.e. kickback), so we could only consider bigger and more expensive tenders. Most people associate EU crony jobs with has been politicians like Kinnock (and his wife), Chris Patten, Peter Mandelson, but even on my little district council we had councilors sitting on EU quangos (funded by UK taxpayers of course), they were far more lucrative than the domestic allowances.

farage for U.S ambassador

Do you have any actual views about any of this stuff, or do you just enjoy a childish glee that is most eloquently expressed through the medium of a smirking emoji?

Excellent post

Bottom line is the EU just emanates a bad smell , as you suggest proper reforms and ousting of trough users and it could ( and should ) work , but allowing in countries just to get them out of Putins influence has created a massive imbalance

Brexit will hurt , but eventually that will subside and the world will just carry on

The key question with all of this is, whether the UK is stronger and more prosperous on the outside, without any influence on what is the country's largest trade block or, are we better off separating ourselves from our closest neighbours, rather than trying to correct any of the faults that there are within the EU and whether having a referendum on this in June was sensible, given that there will be substantial economic fall out in the short-medium term, was in any way sensible.
Of course, over the long term, things will find a new level.
It could be better, it could be worse but, people have voted for the unknown, sold to them by Farage and Johnson and other politicians who told us that we would be able to achieve the same tradinbg terms that we had when we were part of the EU "club".

Btw, I agree with your comments on the "trough" and lets not forget that we have our own MP's, Peers and Royals being very well fed in our own UK trough.

Judging by...







It's sadly the second.

As we all know so many things have been attributed or linked to Brexit. As reported in today's Times, yesterday's London Standard came up with the days most bizarre linkage: "Londoners are still forking out for boob jobs despite the Brexit vote." Strange times we live in.

That was never, ever going to happen.

I mentioned many pages back that watching a 'fly on the wall' documentary on the EU Commission in which Mr Juncker and his cronies spoke candidly about the the looming EU Referendum was enough to secure my 'Out' vote. The widespread contempt, disdain and sheer arrogance expressed towards any criticism of the system was appalling.

All of them, without fail, believe the ideology of the core EU principles and even closer union is absolutely, utterly correct and flawless, and crucially: NOT UP FOR NEGOTIATION IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. Remember, this is not a democratically elected body, yet they shape the future of the EU, like it or not. At least if our government does a terrible job and the populace want a different direction we can vote a new one in. We can do precisely nothing about the EU Commission and you simply can't get away from that fact.

No thanks. I'll take my chances.

Mr Juncker would probably be utterly bewildered he helped contribute to Brexit.

It's difficult to argue with any of that.

The only point to put forward is that our lives and the future of The UK is, whether or not we "like" the EU commission, very heavily dependent on their actions and we have definitely put ourselves on the outside and to the bottom of the pile (in fact, not even on the pile) when decisions are taken in Europe.

75/80 years ago when Britain was a manufacturing powerhouse and leading the world in so many areas, getting out would have made all the sense in the world but, although we are one of the largest economies in the Western world, we are a small island and no longer is the UK powerful enough to "go it alone" and we leave our selves vulnerable, both economically and in so many other ways.
Some of the bureaucracy does seem over the top but, assuming that we end up with similar levels of trade with the EU, the vast majority of this will have to remain.
Mr Juncker does seem both arrogant and power crazed but, is the UK really strong enough to prosper as an isolated nation, perhaps with less support from the USA, now that they are starting to appear more inward looking ?

Come on then all of you "Brexitiers".
Following the Chancellors blanket reduction in growth forecasts and increases in borrowing, how is leaving the EU helping us ?
Despite 2% growth this year, we are heading for the rocks and Brexit is starting to have the effect that everybody was warned about but, it was "just scaremongering"
I despise Osborne but, he did appear to have a clear plan, painful as it was for the poorest members of the population.
His successor seems to have taken a leaf out of Gordon Brown's political strategy, where the Chancellor just crosses his fingers and hopes for the best.

Separate trade deals, even if they happen quickly, aren't going to help significantly and we are still left with a pound that has similar value to gold milk bottle tops.

We've taken back control of the Titanic (sorry UK) just as we approach a huge iceberg.

Farage is too busy sticking his head up Trump's backside, Cameron fell on his sword, Boris remains, a clown and Corbyn cant even lead his own party.
It's bloody depressing

not left yet.

we voted for the long term not short

At least Hammond has given up on Gideon's fairy tale plan to balance the books by 2020.

So now the country's debt will be up to an eye-watering £1.945 trillion by the end of this Parliament, of which £78 billion is estimated to be attributed to a slow down in the economy due to Brexit over the next three years.

But as one of our Pro-Brexit posters says




I just hope that many of the oldies who voted for the good old days, won't be here to see it.

IF we drop into recession, which is extremely likely, please comfort the folk that lose their jobs with your words.
The whole point of this is that, the vote didn't have to occur when it did, other to appease a group of disaffected Tories and just out of interest, how far into the future do we need to go to start and see tangible benefits of leaving the EU ?