The UK has a huge negative balance of payments with the EU - so we pump money in so some countries become more prosperous so they can charge us more for their goods - perhaps that really is too simplistic?

Yes they may be able to buy more of our goods but we will also buy much more of their goods - seems a lose lose to me.

Nobody is saying it will be easy - but impossible no, as I keep saying there are plenty of countries especially in the far east that don't seem to have any difficulties trading with the EU without the EU putting any real restructions on how they operate e.g. working practises - if a country has something the EU wants no trade barriers will stop it being bought.

Can you explain the "huge negative balance of payments" please. Do you mean in terms of trade or, contributions ?

I would also argue that Britain, without the influence of the EU, would go backwards, in terms of employment legislation, and on a topical note "green issues", something which can only change "collectively", an area where the EU is particularly strong.

And, you talk about lose/lose ??
Changing a trading relationship with your "biggest customer" is always fraught with danger.
Most businesses would prefer "not rocking the boat", however, The UK has decided to gamble on getting some better deals from being on the outside of the trading union.
This is not something that most business leaders would recommend, little wonder that the CBI were so against "leaving".

Our negative trade balance with the EU - hope that helps.

If labour get in power it will be impossible for firms to operate given the employment views of Corbyn/McDonald and their stooge McClusky. Every company will have to be full unionised - the board will be made up of shop floor workers that are members of a union etc. That is if Labour haven't nationalised it!!

Most businesses don't have to pay a huge sum for the opportunity to trade - perhaps they would take a different view. Most businessmen will tell you the "margin is in the risk". Steady is OK but its not a growth strategy. If you never take any risks you will standstill and those taking calculated risks will pass you by.

On green matters - unless you get the US and China to play ball its a waste of time - the EU is impotent when it comes to either of these two.

What? It's the definition of economic win/win!

Tories have been saying for years that trade deficits don't matter. Has there been a sudden change of heart on this as well to fit into a Brexit narrative?

An economic win/win - an ability to trade with whom you want at a price that generates sufficient profits to enable the firm to invest for the future i.e. a long term proposition.

Trade deficits, do they matter - only if you are funding part of the very reason for the deficit - would you not agree?

The deficit would be a whole lot less if our currency had greater value - please see previous posts on the weakening £ following the referendum ??

You seem like you want it both ways ??

Cake and eating it spring to mind

Still can't see the Irish border question being resolved without a customs union.

Everything I read suggest the technology for a border like Ireland's is years away.

WTO rules demand a border too so no deal means border. Can't see anything other than at the very least an extended customs union until such time as the tech is workable.

Perhaps you are correct as long as we are free to negotiate with other non-EU countries during this period all is good

Why should we be able to do this ?
It's not the EU that have failed to agree to a deal, it's our own governments utter inability to agree between themselves (never mind getting Parliament, House of Lords and the General Public to agree).
We should adhere to the EU rules until such time as we are out, if not, "we" will just keep going on and on and on.

"Our" lack of a Brexit strategy was obvious at the outset and the cabinet still cant agree the best way forward, which is absolutely scary, when you consider that certain elements have already been "agreed".

Worth remembering that this is all our (the UK's) own doing and again, The EU, with 26 nations to satisfy and yet we cant manage to have 21 people singing from the same song sheet, it's embarrassing.

Remember the Tory mantra "strong and stable" what a bloody joke

Agree about the strong and stable - May is an embarrassment.

I have always said WTO is the best way forward - it works for many other countries and there is no logical reason why it can't work here. Perhaps it will encourage us to become more self sufficient or reduce our dependence on Europe.

As a nation that has never been close to being self sufficient, we have to rely on other countries for the provision of either raw materials and or finished goods and it really shouldn't matter whether we import from the EU or elsewhere.

Our countries strength was traditionally in manufacture and innovation.

However, with the rise of the Asian nations as low cost manufacturers, who can now match / better UK manufacture, we will remain a substantial net importer.

Sadly the heady days of the industrial revolution, where Britain literally ruled the world are nothing but a few chapters in the history books and we have to find new ways to generate wealth.

Our financial services sector has been propping up our lack of manufacturing and once again, by leaving the EU, we have put our "jewel in the crown" at risk.

Quite rightly, the EU dont want to "pay" the UK for services that they can move within the EU26 and with Germany and France desperate to have a slice of this particular cake, we have put this huge sector at risk.

We could all "but British", however, we still have to import the raw materials to manufacture our British goods and there are very few people that are patriotic enough to want to spend significantly more, just to have a Union Jack label on the goods that they buy.

As you intimated in one of your previous posts our balance of trade figures (not just with The EU) are horrific and we no longer have the ability to significantly change this.

Where do you think our "recovery" will come from ?

We still have a strong manufacturing base its just much more niche than it used to be e.g. McLaren, Ginetta, JCB

London has a cache that the Germans/French will not be replicate - no matter what everyone says - being in London is essential for any major financial firm.

We can import product from cheaper sources than the EU so if we want white goods/TV's etc. why do they have to come from within the EU. If the prices from the EU become uncompetitive people will soon move to a more competitive source some of which will be British.

Sorry, Sal but, you are talking nonsense.
Yes, we have a manufacturing base and yes, it is niche. However, due to our relatively high cost base, we have to concentrate on high tech an innovative manufacture, which, quite frankly, just isnt enough to balance the books.

Also, we have become a useful centre for servicing the EU, particularly with things like car manufacture etc and it's difficult to see major companies locating here post Brexit, when they will be safer within The EU.

Concerning the financial sector, you are just wrong.
There is already some slippage within the sector with some jobs already being transferred and with Germany and France desperate for a slice of the action, it will only move one way, south across the Channel.

It appears that the Brexit DREAM is still alive but, I still believe that we will come second in this 2 horse race.

Lions led by donkeys.

Moment of the day: the EU, with a straight face, condemning US steel/aluminium tariffs as 'protectionism'.

I truly doubt they understand the meaning of the word 'hypocrisy'.

I on't know how many nissan/Toyota/BMW etc we buy in the UK but perhaps there could be enough for manufacturers to maintain factories here to service the UK and other non EU countries. Despite our high cost base - major motor manufacturers choose to be here why is that - is not access to Europe because they could easily have opened factories in Europe.


London will always be a major financial centre - its business in the far east and the US will not be impacted to a huge degree. Your idea the London will effectively shrink to be a minor player behind Paris and Dusseldorf is as you so rightly put is utter nonesense.

I on't know how many nissan/Toyota/BMW etc we buy in the UK but perhaps there could be enough for manufacturers to maintain factories here to service the UK and other non EU countries. Despite our high cost base - major motor manufacturers choose to be here why is that - is not access to Europe because they could easily have opened factories in Europe.


London will always be a major financial centre - its business in the far east and the US will not be impacted to a huge degree. Your idea the London will effectively shrink to be a minor player behind Paris and Dusseldorf is as you so rightly put is utter nonesense.

Like all businesses, car manufacturers will site their manufacturing centres based on a number of criteria.
Location (in relation to their main markets), cost of plant, running costs, access to subsidies, gants, sweeteners (particularly interesting for Toyota who were guarenteed by Mrs May's government that "they would be no worse off after Brexit so that they would commit to the production of the new model), proximity to other centres etc, etc

Modern manufacture has companies pulling in components from all over the world and this has to be simple (friction less if you like) and if you were CEO of one of these major manufacturers, unless there was some huge benefit for siting outside the EU, when your major market was within, you would be looking at other EU countries (of course this is providing that they have the technical know how etc to manufacture said product.

"Bribes" aplenty are likely in the short term to prevent the "cliff edge" but, the longer term looks a little less clear.

JCB are not that great. Their tracked excavators are based on old Japanese (Sumitomo) designs and are not as durable as, say Cat, Komatsu or Hitachi. And most of the components, hydraulics, electronics, undercarriage are sourced abroad. The same goes tor their wheeled backactors. Pretty much all JCB do is the metal bashing and assembly. Can't speak for the other companies you cited, but I do know about earthmoving equipment.

Lots of manufacturers have seen costs go up for imported parts. Any problematic trade barriers will cause further cost rises. I can see a few moving to an EU member state since there will be more customers within the block than outside it and they'll want to avoid extra costs and delays from being in the UK.

Cost have gone up due to the value of the £ - it could well be it never recovers and that is the status quo.

Hopefully the dollar will weaken and that will impact prices far more the any movement in the Euro.

As we have discussed previously the EU sell us far more product than we sell them - trade barriers/tariffs will hurt them much more than they hurt us. If their goods become too expensive then customers will look for alternatives - simple supply/demand economics

I'm not so sure. We buy a lot from the EU because we want and need what they produce. The alternatives aren't as attractive. People will just end up paying more for them.

Hyundai or Chrysler over BMW or Audi?

Chlorine washed chicken over the healthier Euro variety?

If anything is wrong food wise in the USA the legal boys sue at the drop of a hat. I presume you may have used swimming baths in the UK. Majority use chlorine without any ill effects. Lots of non eu countries can supply us with goods either cheaper or the equivalent price. The French food and wine industry are starting to panic, they estimate if trade deal is not agreed it could cost them millions. Simply because we can buy good wines from Australia, California, Chile, Argentina. Our cheese industry is capable of producing top quality cheese. As for cars, Nissan seem to be good value, as per Hyundai and Toyota. As for food coming into the UK from the eu, remember the horse meat scam in so called mince meat.

But if the law is changed as it will be post Brexit then no legal boys will sue until harm occurs, probably much later. So is that alright then?



I do but I don’t drink the water or eat my fellow swimmers. Too much exposure to chlorine is harmful.



Evidence?



Always could. If people want French wine they’ll have to pay for it when the price goes up. Most of the cheaper end is from the new world anyway.



Undoubtedly but it won’t be the varieties we get from Europe. They’ll go up in price. So we’ll have to pay more if we want them.



If any of those are manufactured in the EU we’ll have to pay more for them anyway as they’ll be imported from an EU state. For instance Toyota manufacture many models in France, Czech Republic, Portugal and Poland. Hyundai’s made for Europe are made in Germany, Czech Republic and Turkey. It’ll be interesting to see what Nissan do if we’re outside the customs partnership. They have plants already in France and Spain as well as here. They won’t want to pay more to import parts into the UK to manufacture cars and then pay to export them into the EU unless the government somehow gives them a massive backhander (imagine the fallout if that happened).

From what I can see Brexit will mean that if we import it from the EU it’ll cost us more so people will see their choice in consumer goods restricted.

I would suggest there are very few products that we get from the EU that cannot be sourced elsewhere with the exception of food and wine. If you can afford expensive Bordeaux/Burgundy/Champagne then a small increase in tariff isn't going to stop you.

Evidence .
The times ,June 8th spokesman for the Bordeaux wine council Allen Sichel urges politicians to strike a deal to avoid tariffs. Britain is the second largest market for French wines
Cheese, I assume you know how cheese is produced,we have literally hundreds of top quality British cheese makers. Go online and view ,it’s very impressive indeed.
Chlorine, this has been used for years in the USA to kill salmonella in chicken. As of yet no major problems. Crops in this country are sprayed with various substances, some of which have raised safety concerns.
Cars. The market is saturated with different models of cars, the customer is spoiled for choice. Quite obviously Germany exports high volumes of cars to the UK. Can’t see Mercedes, bmw etc etc agreeing to high tariffs on cars.
If the dumbass politicians would step aside and let the leaders of major industry get involved. The situation would be resolved to the benefit of everybody.