I do love a good old-fashioned spot of S&M. And you do seem to have the whip hand, so to speak, oh bearded one.

UKIP gain because disgruntled voters are looking for a protest vote away from the Tories/Clegg, what are their alternatives BNP, ED & ED?

Even you didn't seriously think the rise in UKIP popularity had anything to do with membership of the EEC?

The point is Labour could have taken action earlier so that by now we would have potentially been passed the worst. They gambled on retaining power on the back of less pain now more pain later. Sadly for them the some voters were able to see through their "Its not our fault its a global issue" excuses. Taking unpopular decisions is sometimes required at the point it was required Labour didn't take them.

They would say they had and with growth in the economy starting again key investments in house building, not increasing VAT and not front loading the cuts would have seen us escape what is looking like a triple dip.

Yes, indeed I did (do), and that's why I have to disagree.
I reckon any apparently Europhobic move Cameron makes, takes votes away from UKIP.

Maybe I'm being thick today but you've lost me again.
Was the banking crisis not a global issue? Did not the government take the unpopular decision to bail the banks out?

We were going to build houses just at the point when banks stopped lending!! that's really joined up. Look at Germany there growth has stagnanted and they are a serious manufacturing country. Where was the sustained growth going to come from?

How was the deficit going to be reduced - even they had agreed that it had to come down. They would have had to raise monies somehow if not VAT then direct taxation. At least it appears that despite all the recessions unemployment continues to reduce.

The cuts have cost how many jobs exactly and how many fewer jobs would have been lost under labour?

So, this global financial crisis – it didn't happen, then?

And if it did, it had absolutely no affect on the entirely separate crisis that occurred in the UK?

It was global issue - did the banks in China need bailing out or Australia, South American banks, African banks, Russian banks how global was the crisis - US and Europe?

The government took the only realistic decision open to it, if their would have been any other choice they would have avoided nationalising these banks. The sad thing is that it ever got to that position, but I suppose - despite 10+ years of Labour - that was all Maggie's fault?

Unemployment reducing is partly myth – a bit like Cameron's lie about jobs created, when in fact most of the jobs he mentioned were simply privatised public sector jobs in education.

And as for new jobs – that'll be all the part-time ones, will it? Well, that'll help the economy hugely.

The deficit could be reduced by a variety of measures aimed at increasing employment, which in turn increases tax revenue and cuts benefit payments.

That Labour, for 20-odd years, has followed the same core economic philosophy as the Tories should have you applauding them. Except that you appear to believe the propaganda and, in spite of having had it explained to you time and time again – not least by the excellent and very knowledgeable Sally Cinnamon – persist in peddling the same propaganda again and again and again.

:3vcgctg0

Banks stopped lending stupid money for poor investments to people would couldn't afford it, :3vcgctg0reasonably:3vcgctg0 priced housing is still selling and people are still able to get :3vcgctg0sensible:3vcgctg0 mortgages.

The shortage of housing isn't not going to go away any time soon, building now while the industry needs a boost keeps workers off the dole and increases the available housing stock, a double win.

:3vcgctg0

How about not giving a tax cut to millionaires for a start, there are always two ways to balance a budget, get more in through slow steady growth that keeps people in work or the way Osbourne has handled it, seems like his way is failing.

We were heading for some serious issues the banking crisis compounded an already worsening position. And yes you can roll out "after the WW2 the debt to GDP was" but the level of debt we were building was unsustainable and Labour knew that - the banking crisis did them a favour - it help to divert attention away from the mishandling of matters.

You're contradicting yourself. Either it was a global crisis or it was not.





It was ultimately the fault of the neo-liberal sphericals that successive governments, from 1979 on, have pursued.

The deficit, before 2008, was below that under Major – not least because under Labour, unemployment was reduced. The Tories, remember, consider that unemployment "is a price worth paying" – as long as it it's some other poor paying it.

When are you going to stop pretending that it was not and that these 'record levels of debt' (as opposed to debt under the Thatcher and Major administrations that you never complain of) did not exist except in the minds of propagandists?

How many times does Sally (or anyone else) have to explain it for you?

I can't let you just chuck that one into the pot.
The level of debt was quite manageable (by Labour or Tory standards, if you look at their respective levels when in office at various times) ... until the banking crisis hit.

Labour didn't see that coming and maybe should have regulated the banks (although that would have been tricky, shackling British banks would have reduced their competitiveness compared with foreign banks).
But, let's not forget, at that time Osborne was busily criticising Labour for OVER-regulating the banks.

And wanting us to be just like Ireland.

The political right continues to press the argument that there must be further deregulation in all sorts of areas for the sake of the economy, including in the financial sectors. This is a huge part of what some of them imagine they would get by leaving the EU, without any negative consequences.

Where do you do your research ...the Beano?

I inserted the quotation marks to show it was a quote

I am suggesting there are huge areas/populations in the world that were completely unaffected by the banking crisis - China being one, the arab states being another, Russia etc So was it really a global crisis or was our egocentric view that if affected Europe and the US then it must be global!!

So its all Milton's fault - don't blame Maggie because Blair/Brown decided to continue to follow her flawed economic theory. They had more than one economic cycle to sort things and return back to the good old days of large public ownership, union control, high taxation etc.

Suggest you read Darling's book - the labour top brass knew debt was getting out of control and something would have to be done. They did what Labour always do - shy away from making any tough decisions. If they had made any unpopular moves they would have been obliterated in the election.

simply a lie. when labour came to power it was approx 1.7m, when they left it was almost 2.5m.

You can make stats say anything can't you ?

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10604117According to the BBC who have taken these stats from the ONS[/url unemployment in May 97 was 2.05m and in May 2010 was 2.49m, the trend of downwards unemployment being reversed in April 2008 when the figure was 1.66m and I'm sure we all know why stats tend to get skewed upwards from 2008 onwards ?

More telling is that its still around 2.49m which according to most commentators is far less than they would expect at this time, more worrying is that those same stat collectors and commentators don't know why.

Absolute numbers for employment/unemployment are meaningless without an indication of population.

And an indication of the underemployed.

not really, no. these stats, whichever you choose show unemployment higher when labour left power than when they arrived. are you suggesting those poor sods who lost their jobs from '08 onwards shouldn't be counted?

I'm not suggesting anything, I'm merely providing a link to stats which you failed to do, how you read them and what logic you read into them is entirely your perrogative.