don't start involving facts, you'll be telling them the Earth isn't flat next!

I actually agree with much of your post.
However, you choose to look as one side of the equation and not offer any balance.
To deny that unions have had ANY positive contribution to the well being of workers is pure denial and there are some who would love to treat their workers with utter contempt.
Even with the legislation already in place, some employers STILL flaunt the rules on working conditions, minimum wage legislation and the current hot topic "equal pay".

It's quite incredible that you cant see this (or choose not to) and instead choose to cherry pick one small aspect of my post.
Not everything that occurs to improve the plight of the "working man" results in strike action and nor should it, as I mentioned previously, it (striking) should only ever be a last resort and in an ideal world it wouldn't be necessary.

THe unions do have a role in supporting some workers - in my experience workers in businesses without a union presence have better conditions, better pay and better benefits. I have never felt the need of union to either support a disciplinary or my T&Cs. For all the good the unions do has to be offset against the negative impact they have on business.

The gender gap needs to be looked at on a like for like basis i.e. do men and women doing the same job earn the same monies. All that will happen here is women will positively discriminated against to get them in higher jobs simply to reduce the gender pay gap.

Most employers value they employees yes you might have a few who view them as canon fodder but these are in the minority

Much of the change in working conditions is just natural social evolution - union positive impact is small on a macro level. The Health & Safety act evolved through disaster e.g. factory fires/explosions etc as knowledge was gained from investigation same with asbestos.

The problem with unions is the leadership who want to be celebrities and create situations to allow themselves maximum publicity. The SWT dispute is about keeping the union in the forefront of attention.

lets not forget the Union cheif who was living in a Council home and getting £120k a year, "workers rights"

laughable organisations, laughable politics.

Crikey, there's been a hell of a lot of thread drift lately.

Let's not also forget that one of the largest businessmen the "Little Englanders" wheeled out prior to the referendum, moved all his production of vacuums & washing machines out to Malaysia & Singapore.

Perhaps he'll do a u-turn, once those nasty Europeans have been shipped out.

Little englanders. You have missed out daily mail reader, not forgetting xenaphobe. Don’t worry when jezza comes to power and proceeds with his Marxist clap trap , you will see a real exodus of industry.

Quote ="PCollinson1990"I've benefited nothing from work shy socialists who ruined our industries. Team Corbyn, Team JEALOUS'" Just for balance and I acknowledge that YOU have benefited nothing but fill your boots anyway https://www.epi.org/publication/briefingpapers_bp143/

Quote ="PCollinson1990"I've benefited nothing from work shy socialists who ruined our industries. Team Corbyn, Team JEALOUS'" Just for balance and I acknowledge that YOU have benefited nothing but fill your boots anyway https://www.epi.org/publication/briefingpapers_bp143/

And if Comrade Cob has his way, an exodus of Jews.

They've been there before though. Perhaps Jezza can part the Channel for them. After all, isn't he the saviour?

At the risk of sounding "anti-semitic" -: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/ ... 34136.html

At the risk of sounding "anti-semitic" -: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/ ... 34136.html

Quote ="wrencat1873"Just for balance and I acknowledge that YOU have benefited nothing but fill your boots anyway https://www.epi.org/publication/briefingpapers_bp143/'" an opinion piece about America is relevant, how?

Quote ="wrencat1873"Just for balance and I acknowledge that YOU have benefited nothing but fill your boots anyway https://www.epi.org/publication/briefingpapers_bp143/'" an opinion piece about America is relevant, how?

I presume you're talking about James Dyson? Didn't he move his production abroad when the local council refused him planning permission to expand and create even more UK jobs?

Someone I know who lives in Malmesbury, where Dyson is based, told me if Dyson was ever to shut up shop completely, half of Wiltshire would be unemployed.

Oh I see, refusal of planning permission, there was me thinking it was more to do with production costs being thirty percent lower in Malaysia.



How is it that the Remoaners (an insult to start with) are labeled Marxists, Corbinites, Bleeding Heart Liberals et al, yet one reference gets you all hot & bothered?

Is it because the reference encompasses all those Nationalist traits you have mentioned?

Lots of people like to throw around insults like "snowflake" but are the very people to get disproportionately offended very quickly. Usually when irrefutable matters of fact are presented to them. It would be funny if the topic at hand wasn't so serious.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no cheerleader of James Dyson, just take a look into his Wiltshire farming escapades.

The irony is of course that around the time of him exporting his production, James Dyson was very Pro-European, he was even keen for the UK to adopt the Euro. Whether that was for his own gain (it'd have made exports from the UK highly competitive) or for the benefit of the rest of the country remains questionable. Imagine if he'd have got his wish though... He may have still ended up with the pantomime villain tag, especially among those who lost their good exchange rate for their holiday money, but it'd have made Brexit pretty much impossible.

Most businessmen and politicians who advocate "leave" or "remain" do so for their own benefit.
Very, very few advocate these things for the greater good.

The successful businessmen with thrive in any environment, once they have had time to adjust and for the masses, it's just a case of coping with short/medium term pain.

In the words of Echo and the Bunnymen "nothing ever lasts forever".

Dyson, if allowed, would bring additional jobs into the UK, but, as with most manufacturing companies, assuming they can still offer the required delivery service and not sacrifice quality, they will follow the cheapest labour market.

Hence the move by many companies moved from the UK into Europe and then out to the Far East and India, all pre Brexit.

I notice the pound appears to be gaining strength - which is very odd.

The good times are coming, yippee

They have probably factored in hope for a "soft" Brexit, also expectations of an interest rise in May.

Only another fifteen cents to make up, to get to pre-referendum levels!

Currency rise and falls in relation to economic situations. That’s the advantage for us in not being in the euro. Unlike Greece and Italy who are locked into the euro . The main benificary of the euro is Germany ,ideally if they still had the Deutschmark it would make the German exports more expensive. Hopefully that would give the Southern Europe nations a bit more scope for profitable trade. The debts the USA are running up may well result in the dollar taking a plunge sooner or later.

All true, however, the drop in the value of Sterling against both the Euro and the Dollar, were directly attributable to the referendum result.
The pound dropped around 15% as soon as the result started to become clear and whilst it may regain some value or, indeed, lose further against other currencies, the drop was absolutely a direct result of voting to leave.
Of course, the currency traders around the world may all be wrong but, it was a pretty clear message of what they thought at the time.
Apart from the blatant optimism of a few hard line "leave" campaigners, consensus does seem to have us all (in the UK) being just a little worse off following Brexit and most of them say "it's worth it" to have "control".
As time passes, it will all be consigned to history and blurred by future events and who knows, the UK may even prosper.
The main point being, that, nobody will know how it would have been. so, everyone wins. Utopia.

my opinion on this shifts, almost daily, I don't see it as "party political", we are making a total mess of it. As you say, only Germany benefits, an utter farce.

Those well-known Socialists the Institute for Fiscal Studies have consistently said there is no economic argument for Brexit. It is purely an issue of immigration.

So the 10's of billions that "we" were going to save (by leaving) was a lie and we're not going to be putting an extra £350,000,000 into the NHS every week ?

Should I ring Trading Standards or The Advertising Standards Authority ?

If only we could report ALL former and current governments foe not keeping manifesto promises!

Correct, that’s the nature of politics. An election took place one side won the day, another side lost. Unlike Russia and several other fruit case socialist countries we believe and practice democracy. As for the success of brexit it will be several years before any conclusion can be drawn. Office rents are still rising in London, not the sign of a weakening economy. Unemployment is extremely low and people from other countries are still arriving and finding work. I note that in Sweden and Germany the influx of large numbers of economic migrants who don’t share our common beliefs are causing major problems .
In the next ten years most of these people will have German passports. Hopefully by then we will have regained control of our borders. So we won’t be overwhelmed by these people. Perhaps if the Labour Party had done more for the working man in this country instead of pandering to the metropolitan elite ,brexit would not have occurred.