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| Quote ="Kosh"Actually it might well benefit the whole country. The economics of Olympics are complex and there's a significant contribution just from extra tourism. Not everyone who visits the UK for the Olympics will spend their entire time in or around London and the South.
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One of our major clients has just spent several years encamped in London working on Wembley Stadium and now the Olympic Park, so they have benefited enormously.
Did I mention they are an Irish company ? |
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| Quote ="Live Wired"... I enjoy RL at all levels from schoolgirls to Sl standard.
Strange, Glasgow, Cumbernauld, Sheffield, Leeds, Weymouth, Manchester, Newcastle and Southampton (and those are only the ones I know of) are all hosting training camps and team facilities before and during both the events. Places are benefiting not just because they are hosting sports you know.
Training centres, but no events? Wow. So wheres the benefit for those of us outside of the home counties? The 1966 Brazilian World Cup team stayed at the Lymm hotel in Warrington, certainly did'nt boost industrial output in Warrington.'"
Let's cut the waffle – and noting that you either haven't taken on board or understood the comments about tourism etc – and get back to your original point, shall we?
You claimed that you used to like the Olympics – when the events were contested by amateurs. So do you extend that to rugby and, if not, why not? If you're so fond of the amateur ethos (and disregarding the hypocrisy involved in it for years and in far more than one sport) then why do you follow a sport that has been openly professional since it began? |
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Quote ="Live Wired"I used to love watching the olympics, when it was contested by amateurs who contested events based on speed, strength and enjurability. Now it has become a money making regime, and has lost all of its original purpose...'"
Blimey, how old are you?
Athletes started being allowed to have trust funds (esssentially deferred payment) in the early 1970's.
The famous miler Derek Ibbotson (remember him?) is on record as saying that he'd tell the organisers (ahead of the race meeting) what prize he'd like if (and usually when) he won ... e.g. if he and his wife needed a new fridge, he'd request a fridge. This was commonplace, indeed "normal" ... but he and plenty of other top athletes were, effectively, being paid in kind ... but were nonetheless still regarded as "amateurs".
I recommend a book entitled [iThe Ghost Runner[/i to see some of the ridiculous ideas about what constitutes an "amateur" ... whilst Ibbotson and many many others were allowed expensive "prizes", long distance runner John Tarrant was never allowed to participate in international events because he had received £17 for boxing whilst a teenager (this was from 8 winning bouts, his bus fares came to more than that, not exactly what I would call professional) .
Here's a brief precis ...
www.independent.co.uk/sport/gene ... 05959.html
I'm not blaming Ibbotson or any of the others, it was the committee men who were the total hypocrites, whilst lining their own pockets thank you very much. |
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Quote ="Live Wired"I used to love watching the olympics, when it was contested by amateurs who contested events based on speed, strength and enjurability. Now it has become a money making regime, and has lost all of its original purpose...'"
Blimey, how old are you?
Athletes started being allowed to have trust funds (esssentially deferred payment) in the early 1970's.
The famous miler Derek Ibbotson (remember him?) is on record as saying that he'd tell the organisers (ahead of the race meeting) what prize he'd like if (and usually when) he won ... e.g. if he and his wife needed a new fridge, he'd request a fridge. This was commonplace, indeed "normal" ... but he and plenty of other top athletes were, effectively, being paid in kind ... but were nonetheless still regarded as "amateurs".
I recommend a book entitled [iThe Ghost Runner[/i to see some of the ridiculous ideas about what constitutes an "amateur" ... whilst Ibbotson and many many others were allowed expensive "prizes", long distance runner John Tarrant was never allowed to participate in international events because he had received £17 for boxing whilst a teenager (this was from 8 winning bouts, his bus fares came to more than that, not exactly what I would call professional) .
Here's a brief precis ...
www.independent.co.uk/sport/gene ... 05959.html
I'm not blaming Ibbotson or any of the others, it was the committee men who were the total hypocrites, whilst lining their own pockets thank you very much. | |
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| Quote ="Mintball"... do you follow a sport that has been openly professional since it began?'"
Steady girl, steady.
When the Northern Union was formed, the rules were that only compensation for broken time could be paid.
Plus, amateur rugby league allowed no payment at all.
So, not a professional sport, as an entity, even if some in it were receiving payment. |
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| Quote ="Live Wired"Training centres, but no events? Wow. So wheres the benefit for those of us outside of the home counties? The 1966 Brazilian World Cup team stayed at the Lymm hotel in Warrington, certainly did'nt boost industrial output in Warrington.'"
Mouths to feed, hotels to sleep in, tracks, pools and gyms to hire too, many areas will benefit as a direct result of the Olympics most outside the home counties. In case you haven't understood, the games are awarded to a city, that city is London, the organisers have to keep the majority of events close to the main stadium.
No one made any claims about industrial output. |
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| Quote ="El Barbudo"Steady girl, steady.
When the Northern Union was formed, the rules were that only compensation for broken time could be paid.
Plus, amateur rugby league allowed no payment at all.
So, not a professional sport, as an entity, even if some in it were receiving payment.'"
1895 and all that.  |
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I was nearly in the Olympics, had trials for Rowing and Canoeing in 2007 to find raw talent who could be fast tracked to compete at London 2012, out of 3500 I got to the final 40 of Rowing and final 12 of Canoeing, gutted.
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Couldn't you have volunteered for a country light on canoeists?
I worked witha guy who had Commonwealth Games qualifying standards for both the long jump and 100M (cue Commonwealth Games qualifying standard jokes...) and was born in Jersey who at the time had no reps for either event. He contacted their athletics committee letting them know about his availability etc, and even offered to pay for his travel and accommodation and his kit and suit, so keen was he just to compete (understandably). Bizarrely they refused to consider him with no reason given. Completely off topic, but true, story.
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| Quote ="post"I was nearly in the Olympics, had trials for Rowing and Canoeing in 2007 to find raw talent who could be fast tracked to compete at London 2012, out of 3500 I got to the final 40 of Rowing and final 12 of Canoeing, gutted.'"
Wow. That's still bloody impressive, even though you're obviously gutted. |
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| Quote ="Mintball"Wow. That's still bloody impressive, even though you're obviously gutted.'"
To be honest I reckon I never got picked because I didn't go to University, they were more interested in people who were at Uni and not some rough ar5e plumber from Haydock. |
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| Quote ="post"To be honest I reckon I never got picked because I didn't go to University, they were more interested in people who were at Uni and not some rough ar5e plumber from Haydock.'"
That was really what I was touching on earlier in a response about amateurism in the Olympics. Many sports – athletics and rowing to mention but two – were 'amateur', which was simply an effective way of keeping the hoi polloi out. After all, if you didn't have a private income you wouldn't be able to find the time to train etc.
It's no different really to what happened in rugby.
And it wouldn't remotely surprise me if there were still ways in which such things went on.
On only a very slightly different tack, I remember in the 1970s people would always say that the only reason Jack Simmons and David Hughes never got capped for England was because they "ate their peas off their knife". The importance of class was greater, for many, than winning. And I think we're really only just starting to see the end of the culture that that left us with. |
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| Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"Couldn't you have volunteered for a country light on canoeists?
I worked witha guy who had Commonwealth Games qualifying standards for both the long jump and 100M (cue Commonwealth Games qualifying standard jokes...) and was born in Jersey who at the time had no reps for either event. He contacted their athletics committee letting them know about his availability etc, and even offered to pay for his travel and accommodation and his kit and suit, so keen was he just to compete (understandably). Bizarrely they refused to consider him with no reason given. Completely off topic, but true, story.'"
presumably Steve McNamara wasn't in charge of the Jersey Athletics associations at that time and they wanted people to represent them who actually had an afinity with and loyalty to the place, not just because they are not good enough for their own country. |
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| Quote ="Mintball"...On only a very slightly different tack, I remember in the 1970s people would always say that the only reason Jack Simmons and David Hughes never got capped for England was because they "ate their peas off their knife". The importance of class was greater, for many, than winning. And I think we're really only just starting to see the end of the culture that that left us with.'"
In Cricket, there were Gentlemen and there were Players.
Often they would have separate changing facilities and would be listed in the programme diferently ... a Gentleman would be listed as, say, E Barbudo but a Player would be Barbudo, E.
And, as late as the 1960's(*), it was not unknown to announce over the PA a correction to the programme if a Player had been listed in the Gentlemen's manner.
(*) If memory serves. |
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| Quote ="El Barbudo"In Cricket, there were Gentlemen and there were Players.
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Very good programme on radio 4 about 6 weeks ago that covered in detail this very topic including the PA announcements. Very interesting indeed.
W C Grace made considerable wealth from his cricketing "expenses" far more than his career in the medical profession |
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So, is this what the "Olympic Legacy" really means?
[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17821018Newham Council embark on social cleansing programme[/url, a sad indictment on this coalition's policy of capping rent subsidies, without introducing a rent cap. When all the poor people have been moved from the capital, how will the rich get their tables waited on, streets cleaned etc?
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| Quote ="cod'ead"So, is this what the "Olympic Legacy" really means?
[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17821018Newham Council embark on social cleansing programme[/url, a sad indictment on this coalition's policy of capping rent subsidies, without introducing a rent cap. When all the poor people have been moved from the capital, how will the rich get their tables waited on, streets cleaned etc?'"
I'm not sure you can blame 30+ years of housing mismanagement on the Olympics.
Sure there is some short term profiteering going on but by the looks of it that isn't the issue here. |
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| Quote ="Big Graeme"I'm not sure you can blame 30+ years of housing mismanagement on the Olympics.
Sure there is some short term profiteering going on but by the looks of it that isn't the issue here.'"
So what will be happening to the 2,800 homes that will be vacant by the end of the year? |
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| Quote ="El Barbudo"In Cricket, there were Gentlemen and there were Players.
Often they would have separate changing facilities and would be listed in the programme diferently ... a Gentleman would be listed as, say, E Barbudo but a Player would be Barbudo, E.
And, as late as the 1960's(*), it was not unknown to announce over the PA a correction to the programme if a Player had been listed in the Gentlemen's manner.
(*) If memory serves.'"
I used to work with a man who remembered going to Lord's and seeing Middlesex and Yorkshire come out: 10 of the hosts emerged from the pavilion and just one from the dressing room where the 'players' were housed. With Yorkshire, it was the other way around.
I remember reading somewhere that in rowing, 'amateurism' helped to keep Thames barge rowers out of the sport. Indeed, it was still unusual when someone like Steve Redgrave broke into the sport, given that he didn't attend a public school. |
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| Quote ="peggy"Very good programme on radio 4 about 6 weeks ago that covered in detail this very topic including the PA announcements. Very interesting indeed.
W C Grace made considerable wealth from his cricketing "expenses" far more than his career in the medical profession'"
When I was doing sports journalism (up to 1999), the [iTimes[/i would publish an annual list of the top 10 best paid sportsmen.
At that time, there were never any footballers in it. Will Carling used to feature regularly, though. |
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| Quote ="cod'ead"So what will be happening to the 2,800 homes that will be vacant by the end of the year?'"
The athletes village? Aren't they going to a housing association?
Landing the state of East London's (and the rest of it to be honest) at the door of the Olympics is a red herring, it hasn't helped any but successive governments have failed to grasp the stupidly high cost of housing in general and in the South East in particular. |
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| On the housing:
Quote ="Stratford London"1,439 homes are owned by QDD, a consortium comprised of Qatari Diar and developer Delancey. These homes will be available from April 2013 and will be largely for rent. QDD also own six adjacent future development plots, with the potential to develop a further 2,000 homes.
1,379 homes are owned by Triathlon Homes, an innovative joint venture company which comprises of housing associations - East Thames Group and Southern Housing Group and developer, First Base. Triathlon Homes will manage the affordable homes at Athletes' Village which will include social rent, intermediate rent and part buy, part rent homes.'"
[url=http://www.stratfordlondon.info/developments/athletes-villageLink[/url |
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[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-17807502'Right, it's going to be chaotic so we'd like you to completely change your everyday lives to accommodate it.'[/url
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It's going to be chaos. I will be avoiding London from about mid June until the whole Olympic circus has left town.
It will probably be several years (if ever) before such a report is published, but I would love to see a cost / benefit analysis of the Olympics. I.e how much money it generated compared to the cost of staging it.
I also note there was an attempt at blatant profiteering by proposing to increase fines for motorists:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17512952 |
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It's going to be chaos. I will be avoiding London from about mid June until the whole Olympic circus has left town.
It will probably be several years (if ever) before such a report is published, but I would love to see a cost / benefit analysis of the Olympics. I.e how much money it generated compared to the cost of staging it.
I also note there was an attempt at blatant profiteering by proposing to increase fines for motorists:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17512952 | |
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But greed is good, right?
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| Quote ="Mintball"[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-17807502'Right, it's going to be chaotic so we'd like you to completely change your everyday lives to accommodate it.'[/url'"
Would you like to borrow my bike ? |
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