That is not true the poppy may have come into being to celebrate those who died in the great war but since then has being used to raise money and support all servicemen who have fought in Britains wars ever since.

Whilst it is easy to be sympathetic to the World Wars many people feel very uncomfortable that it is still a symbol for those who fopught in the struggles to oppose Nationalist movements in the Empire from Aden, Kenya,Cyprus.

In Ireland they did not really celebrate Armistice day until a few years ago because some of those who died during WW1 were killed in Dublin putting down the Easter Rising. My Grandmas brother was in the Munster rifles fighting in WW1 for the British whilst my Grandmother and her husband were fighting afgainst the British in Dublin.

Whilst you may wish to see it as unpolitical many others do not.

And most people – regardless of what they think of individual conflicts/interventions/wars – do not see it as a "celebration", but as a commemoration.




BTW: nice avatar, designed (in effect) by an anti-semitic, anti-worker, anti-facial hair bigot.

Symbols, eh?

From a twitter feed on a link that tb provided on another thread:

[iRT @ronniejoice: Where can I complain about a BBC Radio presenter who sounds like they're not wearing a poppy? [/i

I think most people can actually see past the political reasons behind the wars, and simply pay respect and spare a moment's thought for the servicemen and women who have served. I might not agree with a conflict, but that doesn't make me feel uncomfortable about remembering, and donating towards the services.

I'll remember Allied troops from WW2, and while I detest everything the Nazis stood for the poor lads who were forced to fight and die in WW2 for the Axis were just as much victims. Not every German soldier was a lunatic Nazi - in fact very many were unwilling conscripts, and not even German. It's a time to look past the politics to the humanity involved.

I don't agree it's a political symbol for the majority, but if people choose to tag political issues to the wearing of poppies, that's their choice. I can understand why it might be a touchy subject in Ireland and NI (as it is to some Muslim movements), but that's their viewpoint and they're entitled to it. But that doesn't mean it demeans the meaning to those who wear it for the simple reason of remembrance.

Spot on Cronus. My grandad served in the Army in the second world war, a very close friend died serving in Afghanistan a couple of years ago, an uncle served in the Falklands and suffers mentally from what he did and saw, my girlfriends grandad was Polish and was forced to serve in the German army during the war after seeing his parents and brother shot in front of him. Naturally he suffered from what he saw and did.

Whatever the politics behind any of those conflicts I will still remember them and try to honour their sacrifices in some small way and wearing a poppy on Armistice Day is a significant part of that.

Just because some people choose to think that the poppy is political doesn't actually mean it is.

today in france is a national holiday - it's not a religious or political occasion just a day for the people of france to remember all those of all nationalties who gave their lives for our freedom
In every city,town and village a service will be held to commemorate the ending of hostilities in 1918,the so called 'war to end all wars' plus to honour all the fallen in all conflicts since
the mayor of the commune or borough will read a speech prepared by Mr Sarkozy and a piper or trumpeter will play the 'Last Post' - in our commune of about 3000 people about 500 people of all ages will take part including the local brass band who will lead the procession through the town to the memorial
The service will,as always be accompanied by a minutes silence
I will wear my poppy with pride even though it will mean nothing to the locals - they have their own ways of showing respect
Lest We Not Forget - thanks to all those who died for my freedom...

Very good post.

Some people need to distinguish the difference between celebration and commemoration. Politicians/religious leaders usually start the wars and the servicemen and women are the ones that go into battle to fight it out, in Britains case they are doing the deed for us via our elected representitives decisions (not in my name cannot wash in a democracy). As an ex serviceman who saw active service in the Falklands war, I wear a poppy with pride in 'commemoration' of those who have fought in ALL conflicts, especially in WW11, because without the sacrifices that those servicemen and civilians made we would not be in a position to freely debate or protest against all the wars in recent times we did not like. I wish this could be remembered, especially when some feel the need to burn poppies in hatred at their dislike of the country that gives them safe haven from danger.

Yes, from what i remeber it is a big day in France particularly as so much of boith of the big wars were fought there.
Anyone know what they do in other European countries

Fascinating interview witha WW2 veteran on Breakfast this morning Victor Gregg. ( 8.40 am) His views on the war wearing poppies and Dresden were fascinating and very poignant

no idea mate but it is a big day in france along with the 8th May (VE Day)

the french mark this time of year not with poppies but with crysanthemums - they go on sale everywhere from the last wek in october and last a few weeks to cover 1st november (All Souls Day = Halloween) and continues through to cover the 11th and beyond to show their respect for the dead - again,as you say,I don't know how other european countries 'celebrate' this time of year ?

A few years ago, on 11th Nov, I was in a pub in Central London and wearing a poppy, as were a bunch of old soldiers in there who, I guess, had just been to the Cenotaph.

A German guy standing next to me (who I didn't know) pointed at my poppy and asked me why everyone was wearing these flowers.
I explained as best I could what it was about and he approved of the whole idea and asked me where he could get one.
He saw it as a symbol of the human cost of war and I swear his eyes were moistening as he said it.

Get radio 2 on now and listen to victors story 12.43 pm.

the full documentary is on tomorrow BBC 2 ( it might be radio 2 )9pm.

This guy is a real hero but very modest yet was no different to millions of others . despite that he has strong views on the bombing of Dresden and the wearing of poppies.

Couple of articles by Fisk about the poppy situation and how it relates to some of those who did fight in the two world wars.

[url=http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/robert-fisk/remember-this-were-not-worthy-of-wearing-poppies-16074942.htmlBelfast Telegraph[/url

[url=http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-do-those-who-flaunt-the-poppy-on-their-lapels-know-that-they-mock-the-war-dead-6257416.htmlThe Independent[/url

He will know that the losses included millions of his won countrymen, who were dragged along with no choice. I remember when our skipper came on the tannoy and announced the sinking of the Belgrano, the reaction from the crew was the same as when the Sheffield got hit, one of sorrow and certainly no celebrations.

Likewise, a very good friend of mine, who is German and who's own father served in WWI, has never remotely had a problem with the poppy, with wearing one himself and standing for the minute's silence wherever he was at the time.

Thanks Minty,, my Mum was on the other side

So many people suffered on all sides. For me, that's in my mind at this time of year. And that's largely why, for me at least, the poppy - and what goes with it - is not political. It's a remembrance of appalling wastes of human beings.

And thanks for your comment. Appreciated.

Does anyone on here bother with the Peace Pledge Union's [url=http://www.ppu.org.uk/poppy/white poppy[/url?

The problem with the white poppy is that its introduction was inevitably seen to represent something of a criticism of the sentiments behind the red poppy. And, for some, an implied criticism of those that served or serve in the forces.

The sentiments behind the white poppy are perfectly fine, I'm sure that 90% of those that wear the red poppy would agree with them. If anything it should be seen as complimentary to the red poppy. But it just doesnt feel that way. It seems more like a challenge, one that is unecessary.

My Mum and her Mum "suffered" from the Soviet "liberation" of Germany.

I have to say that they didn't feel so well about the "libreation".

I know you wouldn't think my socialist family deserved it.

For me there can only be the one colour and that is red. Does the PPU think all those that wear red poppies enjoy war, I am sure all (apart from nutcases) are peace lovers at heart.

Excellent post. I think you're spot on.

The Red Army committed some appalling crimes, included (but not limited to) rape. Not, it's worth pointing out, that they were either the the first or the last. Horribly, it's something that has gone on for centuries and continues - and is one (just one) of the reasons that war is so awful.

No - as you say - I don't believe that anyone 'deserved' such treatment. I don't care what their personal politics were ...

Oh he'll: it's 8.30pm on a Friday night.. You don't want or need me to waffle through my current tiredness. Not least because I think we probably agree on far more over this than we disagree.

Seriously: thanks for the posts. I hope you and your family are well.

Cheers, Minty. Wish we were well...lol