I've said it before, to own a dog imo you should be able to demonstrate some behavioural awareness and attend at least 6-8 weeks of training classes. A dog can't hold a conversation with you so its upto the owners to learn exactly what their dog is saying/feeling/behaving by observing and learning its body language. I'm fascinated by dog behaviour so I tend to read up on as much as I can and apply it to my two, but every owner should read at least one book before they even [ithink[/i of getting a dog. I'm (surprisingly) not sure about gun licensing in the US but I would assume anyone sensible wouldn't think of owning a gun without having some sort of training first at a shooting range, likewise my driving instructor taught me the rudimentaries of how an engine works as he saw it as an important piece of knowledge to have if I owned a car.

The unspoken good dog ettiquette as well is, if you see a dog on a lead and yours is off lead, you put yours on lead too because you never know why that dog is on a lead, it may be for a simple reason as recall but you never know until you approach and talk to the owners. Unfortunately not everyone is aware of this unspoken etiquette but even so, it should be good manners anyway.

Will it ever happen? I doubt it as some people see dogs as their right and couldn't care less to find out about what makes it tick. I see my dogs as a priviledge not a right as I would hope most good dog owners would. They give me so much that I think I owe it to them to understand them as much as I can.

the funny thing is my brother is a 21 year old, with a rottweiler and labweiler, who also drives a hot hatchback. Looking at him you'd imagine he was your typical status dog owner/chav/daft lad, but he truly loves his dogs and is a very good owner. He never intended to keep Milo as his own, he was bought to live with his girlfriends mum as a bit of security after her husband and both rotties had all unfortunately passed in the space of a couple of years, but my brother became his master in a matter of days of knowing him and they're truly inseparable. My brother denies it now but when we were much younger he was terrified of any pet bigger than our guinea pigs

If I put my dog ( bull/russel X, we think ) on his lead, he will happily take on a grizzly bear, off lead he is reasonably social with the occaisional raising of hackles and low growl if he feels threatened, so what is the better option?

All dogs are different, and require different behaviour, the important part is consistency , so the dog knows where he stands and what is expected of him , similarily when younger he would throw himself on his back at the sight of a child offering his belly for ticking, but would I leave him alone with a young child ( despite him not being big enough to do any real damage ) ? , no

The death of the young girl is a tradegy, but to introduce an adult large bulldog type of animal into a family with young children is not the cleverest thing to do

That happens with many dogs, its a natural defence mechanism from feeling restricted on a lead, as I mentioned before a dog has only two mechanisms to deal with a perceived threat (not the same as what we'd see as a threat), to run away/show submission or to fight - they can do neither properly when tied to you. Mix in the fact that the dog also wants to protect you and you start to understand why many dogs can be more aggressive on the lead than off.

My own does not walk well on the lead as he pulls like hell because he always wants to be out in front - you can see this when you let him off the lead in open space, he then trots off 20 yards in front of you and will happily stay there all day, turning to check you every 30 seconds or so, part of that is a breed specific thing because GSD's have a trot that they can maintain all day, unfortunately its slightly faster than human walking pace

but its what he feels more comfortable doing and off the lead he is extremely relaxed and a very friendly dog.

The better option is that you have your dog on a lead and you are in full control of your dog. If your dog is off lead, approaches a dog that is not so good with other dogs and that dog bites your dog, who do you think was in the wrong? YOU are for not having your dog fully under control. Its irresponsible to let your off lead dog approach an on lead dog and its annoying when you are aware and in fully control of your dog and an off lead dog approaches and the owner does nothing.

Yes I understand where the responsibility would lie, however off the lead he rarely approaches other dogs on a lead, and is trained well enough ( or is himself obiedient enough ) to follow my instructions to come away from overly boisterous or indeed agressive dogs be they on or off a lead

As I said all dogs are different, but consistency in behaviour of their owner is part of the key, if he shows signs of displeasure ( the raising of his ' mohawkan ' hackles ) on meeting an off lead dog my instructions to " come away " are followed instantly

Just how much ' under control ' does somebody have of any dog that is dragging them along a path?

Rarely, but sometimes he can? And does any dog have 100% recall because mine certainly don't. Your dog, by approaching mine, may undo weeks, possibly months of training I have been doing, all because you won't lead your dog. Not only is it irresponsible, its arrogant too. For the sake of other dogs as well as your own (who can get seriously hurt by approaching an on lead dog) lead your dog if you see another approaching on lead.

How many times have we seen in the news an off lead dog running to a dog on lead and doing serious harm and the owner looking totally bewildered saying he's never done that before. Dogs are unpredictable and its not worth the hassle and upset it can cause.

So I lead my dog, who then becomes aggressive, leading to quite possibly the other dog becoming aggressive, that is a satisfactory situation?

He will generally only approach smallish dogs or ones he is familiar with who are leaded, any that show any signs of aggression or over boisterous bahaviour are ignored and given a wide berth, his nature is quite simply when attached to me he is defensive leading to aggression, that is of no benifit to any other dog ,leaded or not, or their owner, all it does is raise the stress levels among all concerned

As I said, all dogs are different, and require different behaviour from their owners

Yes as both parties will have full control of their dogs and both equally as liable instead of one party being libelous.

All this talk about whether dogs are aggressive on a lead, or off it, is quite bizarre.... Why bother owning something that is a ticking timebomb??..... I doubt you would buy a car if the seller pointed out that there is a small chance that the brakes may fail??

I'm quite apathetic about dogs, but I do it find it strange that people want to go out for a walk with something, knowing that, at any point, you could be involved in something a bit stressful like a dogfight, or worse, a dog attack on a human.... It must be the similar feeling to going out on a Saturday night with a group of friends, knowing that a couple of them get a touch aggressive after 5 or 6 pints - It kind of takes the edge off what should be a pleasurable evening out?

When confronted with an aggressive leaded dog, how does your animal react?

In that case I suggest you never leave your house, never cross a road or never attend a sporting event, as all those have a risk to them

May I suggest you then take out 3rd party dog insurance for when someone sues you when their on lead dog gets injured by your dog (oh but your dog has never done that before, has he and he has 100% recall). I'll say it again, you never know why the dog is on lead in the first place, maybe it is that dog that is totally petrified because of a past experience and your dog will undo months of work. It takes two seconds to recall your dog, put it on lead, pass the other dog, and unlead once passed. I'd rather have a few secs of scuffles and trying to get past then an injured party. I do it everyday, why can't you?

They are sat, looking at me waiting for the treat I have in my hand because I train them when we see an on lead dog to look at me and they do it automatically now. We sit with my dogs backs to the leaded dog so they are not distracted. By the time the dog has gone past we have walked on, still with treats and when far enough they are let off lead. Its not rocket science, just common sense and decency.

Yes, I appreciate that there is a risk to most things in life, but at least I have an element of control over most of the things I choose to do..... If I have an animal, which I am legally responsible for, and I choose to let it run loose in a public park, where there are other animals, then I'd suggest that my element of control of that situation is a lot smaller than crossing the road?

Because I dont have to, it is uneccessary, it removes the potential of a confrontation every time I meet another dog owner when out walking, I have never had my dog attack another, neither has he been attacked , neither have I had any other owner request as such, maybe the dogs and their owners are more unpredictable in Hull

As I said, different dogs present different problems, if I had a rotweiler I perhaps would behave differently, if my jack russell X decides to lauch itself at the next doberman it meets and attempts to rip its throat out then I'll be proved wrong

I'd suggest with idiot humans behind the wheels of cars your element of control isnt as good as you think

Does anyone know of some kind of device to stop dogs barking?

Next doors three dogs (that never get taken for walks) bark constantly when the neighbours are out and despite some subtle warnings the neighbour does nothing about it.

The living room wall is quite thin so you can hear the dogs barking as if they are in the same room.

12 bore should work OK

Ordinarily to get a dog to stop barking you first have to teach it to bark on command, then you can work on the "quiet" but in this case it sounds like the dogs have separation anxiety which is very hard to completely solve. As you'll have guessed the dogs are stressed at your neighbour going out and them being left alone. It can take months even years to get to a situation where the dog (s) isn't outwardly showing any stress like barking, chewing furniture/door frames etc.

Your neighbour sounds like he needs some advice on how to deal with seperation anxiety which takes a lot of patience on him and you too. If I were you I would speak to your local council, explain the problem and they should be in touch with the local dog warden who will have experience of this sort of thing and be able to offer advice and how to work with the dogs on their seperation anxiety.

I the mean time could you ask your neighbour if he could leave the dogs with something to do while he is out like chews or Kong Toys? This might temporarily help while he works with them.

Good luck and if he takes the advice on board, try to be patient, believe me the dogs are a lot more stressed than you are. I had to spend a lot of money having my leather sofa completely re-stuffed after my dog would completely chew it to bits every time we ventured out. Both of mine are not completely cured, they still show a few signs of separation anxiety like laying at the door while we are out, but we have come a long way since those early days and feel comfortable leaving them now.

Fair enough, but on my own personal stress levels, I feel more comfortable crossing a road than taking a walk through my local park and being confronted by some excitable dog, even if their owner always comes out with the classic 'its ok, he doesn't bite' line ....

The problem, as has been stated many times, is the owner not the dog. As a fisherman my pet hate is dogs off the lead. Dogs smell your bait and make a bee-line for it. When you shoe them away the owners get very irate. I even got abuse from one owner when I shoed away a dog that was attempting to pee over my tackle. If they had been on a tight leash there would have been no problem.

My other issue is dog walkers who don't bag up their dog's mess, or worse still hang it in bags in the hedgerows. I no longer fish may favourite section of canal in the summer because of the stench coming from the numerous bags of dog mess hung in the hedgerow along the towpath.

I just don't understand the mentality of this, its actually better (but not acceptable) to leave the dog crap on the ground where at least it will wash away/decompose, to go to all the trouble of bringing bags with you, then picking up the fresh warm crap (not very pleasant) to then think that a nearby tree would benefit from being decorated with your bag of poo is just - weird.

The answer is of course to have places for disposal, bins in other words, but I've seen dog poo tree decorations in my local park where there are plenty of bins.

Humans are a big problem aren't they ?

Yep, they leave half eaten takeaways, dump rubbish and take their stolen wheely bins (complete with lid open and scattered contents) on the field I take my dogs who, as dogs do, eat anything that we find disgusting but they find delicious, and costs me a lot of worry, effort and worming tablets trying to keep them safe, bloody humans

Taken from Dogs Today Magazine FB group:-

If only the Daily Mail had contacted vet and behaviour expert Kendal Shepherd.... here's what she has to say:

[iThoughts on the tragic case of Lexi and Mulan

For anyone who has fought long and hard for some common sense to be brought into current ‘dangerous’ dog legislation, this case will have caused many people a sleepless night or two. Even more so if one has tried to impress on the ‘powers that be’, as I have, the urgent need for proper forensic investigation of all dog bite incidents, including fatalities, to determine cause and to enable public education regarding dog behaviour and dog bite prevention.
Even from, albeit generally unreliable, newspaper reports regarding this latest case, warning signs are emerging, obvious to any informed commentator, which are all the same being interpreted as ‘without warning’ and ‘out of the blue’ by those involved in this tragic incident.
The ‘facts’ that have emerged so far according to the media reports I have read are listed below. Each results in questions which urgently need to be asked and by those sufficiently expert in interpreting the answers and their implications. It is imperative that any inquest demands and takes account of such investigation and expertise.
1. An erroneous photo of a Dogge de Bordeaux as the alleged culprit on a fine choke chain accompanied by a much younger Lexi in the London Metro paper on Wednesday 6th November;
Why is a photo of dubious provenance falsely implicating a large dog breed allowed to be printed with no repercussions on the newspaper concerned? Metro staff verbally confirmed to me that this was an image supplied by a neighbour of a previously-owned dog. So where is that dog now? Is Lexi’s mother a serial large dog owner? What is the significance of the choke chain? Is this how her dogs have been routinely communicated with?
2. The dog, now called ‘Mulan’, picked up as a stray and taken (to be rehomed if not claimed within seven days) to Willow Tree Dog Rescue, which has recently taken on the contract for Leicestershire County Council. The dog is thought to have been about 7-8 years old;
How long had the dog been in the rescue centre? Was any kind of temperament or behavioural testing carried out by someone qualified and experienced enough so to do?
3. The kennels stipulating that the dog was not suitable to live with young children, but would be ‘OK if stopped from jumping up’;
Was jumping up the only reason the dog was deemed unsuitable to live with young children? How was ‘stopping jumping up’ undertaken? Threats and coercion or rewarding an alternative behaviour, such as sitting? The presence of a choke chain on the previous dog suggests the former.
4. The dog taken on by single parent living in a flat;
Was a home check carried out prior to rehoming and/or afterwards? What exercise did the dog routinely get? On lead/off lead? How much living space/quiet time? Was the dog registered at a veterinary surgery? Had it been vaccinated? How did it behave for veterinary examination? Any medical problems diagnosed, possibly age-related (this was a middle-aged to elderly large cross-breed)?
5. Mulan growled at Lexi and was ‘told off’ by Lexi’s mother before launching the attack. This was interpreted by a neighbour as acting without provocation or warning.
Dogs don’t growl for fun – it is a warning sign. What was Lexi doing to provoke being growled at? How many times had Mulan growled, at whom and in what context? What had been the routine response to his growling? Recognition of it as a clear warning sign and resolution of the threat from Mulan’s perspective, or increasing threat and punishment of ‘naughty’ behaviour? Had punishment become associated with Lexi? Was the reprimand the trigger- the straw that broke the camel’s back?
Of course, the overwhelming majority of dogs do not respond to reprimand with any aggression, let alone a fatal attack. The co-evolution of the intimate relationship humans have with dogs was only made possible by canine tolerance of human anger. What we haven’t begun to investigate is how ‘normal’ dog-human relationships survive, because we spend far more time studying ‘problems’ – the dog who has already bitten a jogger, wrecked the furniture, eliminated in inconvenient places etc. How many dogs out there are tolerant of routine punishment without retaliation? And how far are these ‘suitable’ dogs convincing both certain trainers and their owners that dogs will tolerate everything we throw at them? How many preventable ‘accidents’ are there just waiting to happen?
But we cannot yet be sure if factors so far identified in this and any other fatality are simply correlations rather than causations. At what point therefore can we determine what combination of components have to come together to cause any dog bite as well as fatalities, rather than simply being ‘innocent bystanders’ in the event? Only by thorough and mandatory investigation of every event by those behaviourally qualified to do so will we gather the data to be able to inform, educate and prevent. With the greatest respect to police investigations, these are generally carried out in order to determine culpability and the viability of a prospective prosecution. Finding someone to blame is not the same as identifying cause in a non-judgmental way. It does however absolve others of responsibility in what may be, in reality, ‘there but for the grace of God go we’ situations.
There are indeed valuable bite prevention initiatives being implemented however it appears to me that many of these are targeted towards perceived ‘irresponsible’ dog owners rather than it being recognised that safety education regarding dog behaviour is essential across the whole social spectrum and from a very young age. The average 4 year old, such as Lexi, will already have been told many times not to speak to strangers, not to play with matches, and, when crossing the road, to look left, right and left again first. But where was the equally life-saving information regarding what a dog’s growl means? Such education ought to be in the National Curriculum rather than being left to chance and the hit-and-miss regional provision of very well-meaning charities.
Where therefore does the overall blame lie?
If anyone is to blame for Lexi’s death, to me it is the government which is consistently ignoring the need for mandatory and up-to-date education, of both children and adults, regarding dog behaviour and the dog-human relationship. It is also ignoring the need to even-handedly and thoroughly investigate all dog bite incidents, relying instead upon the adversarial system and implementation of punishment to act in a preventative manner. But could any threatened punishment, however severe, have prevented this week’s tragedy? Why the apparent reluctance to insist upon expert and public investigation? Could it be that this might reveal unwelcome truths about correlations and potential causes of dog-related fatalities which will not be a vote-winner in any political party’s book?
But at what price a child’s life compared to complying with the public need for vengeance and thereby winning headlines and votes?
Very many more questions than answers – but it is high time that both the questions to be asked and the urgent answers required are taken seriously and used as far as humanly possible to prevent future tragedies of this nature.
Kendal Shepherd[/i


Wholeheartedly agree with everything she says. I always say it when these types of incidents happen and knee jerk posts pop up.......education, education, education. If only a potential dog owner took the time to educate themselves, even on the very basics then such incidents might be avoided.