We seem to be forgetting that, when the music stops, there aren't enough chairs for everyone.

Yes, there are chairs out there ... but not enough !

But what do we want chairs for? Sally Cinnamon has told people to get [uof[/u their lazy backsides and stop complaining.

...all of which, in today's economic climate is about as rational as saying to an amputee: 'Why don't you just go out and grow a new leg. Have you thought of getting someone else's leg. There's loads of legs out there. It's you're own fault you're struggling to walk.'

My only worry with your post is that there are probably people on here who actually believe it's a sane argument.

Don't joke. One of the criteria to get DLA/PIP now will be you can only receive it if you cannot get out of a wheelchair to walk 50m, even with crutches and/or zimmer frame and even then you have to be able to propell that wheelchair the distance yourself, someone else pushing you doesn't count as they class it as you have the help (ie the pusher)

And theres STILL some people out there who cannot praise this government enough.

It's irrelevant whenever I did or didn't. But since your asking I didn't.

I may be wrong, but I suspect that Sally wasn't being entirely serious.

But he brings up a point – which is the 'aspirational' that has taken off over the last 30 years and which seems to centre on the idea that 'I want more stuff' is good. Which of course it is, when you base your economy on the service and retail sectors. And therefore, it makes it part of the overall problem.

I certainly hope so. If I thought for a moment that it was antthing other than satirical I would have had a real blast at her, rather than anonymous 'other people' who might take it as a serious argument.

Also, I think 'she' is a 'he'.

Sorry if my lampoonery came over as being at the expense of the disabled, It wasn't meant to be.
I'm pretty disgusted by Tory attacks on DLA, social care and respite myself.

I didn't take it that way

I meant it to mean what you said was not far from the truth

Maybe you'd better say why that was.
Otherwise people might think you are whinging.

Untrue - it was a definite position, albeit and unskilled role but it was a definite not an opportunity. It would have guaranteed you 40 hours of game full employment. I think you didn't fancy the start time - 7.00 - nor the idea of starting at the bottom. Easier to stay in bed and moan about how unfair life is whilst the rest of toil away to provide the funds for you to idle your day away on the internet watching Denise Welch get her tits out!! You should be ashamed of your attitude - the fact you think it is funny is a total disgrace.

Turning this down should mean he loses any benefit.

Damo, you have no leg to stand on and backs up my shirker claim, Sal and I may not agree on quite a lot of things but to throw this offer backing in his face is nothing short of criminal.

I'll not comment at the fear of being classed as a waster who doesn't want to work like last time.

Although as you can all guess the christmas job was just that.

Until you can get someone or something to back you up that it was proper employment as opposed to just an opportunity to apply for, then people will just have to take your word for it. So feel free to speculate all you want in the meantime. But that’s all it’ll be - speculation and not solid FACT.

However to make a sweeping statement that I think that this is amusing is insulting. Anyone who has kept a close eye on these boards over the pass couple of years could clearly suss that I’m someone who absolutely loathes been unemployed.

Finally I am grateful that you made an effort of trying to get me into employment. Unfortunately your latest comments have left me wondering if you had an hidden agenda which involved using your interaction with me as fodder to help strengthen your clear dislike of me for future debates like this one.

But sunshine, that's part of the problem.

There are a number of people here who rarely agree with Sal Paradise. To see that they are more likely to believe him than you on this would tell a half-way intelligent person something.

Unfortunately, you're not even half way intelligent enough to understand that, let alone that nobody has any sympathy for you, but sees you as a pathetic individual who is actually almost the worst sort of example of what the tabloids and right wing portray in general.

I’m fine with people believing whatever they want. If you think I’m participating in this debate to convert the sinbin masses into believing everything that I write then you’ve got it very wrong.

The point that you should take from this is that people from across the political spectrum are not only NOT defending you, but are agreeing that, on the basis of what you post here, you're a waste of space.

Indeed. His posts no longer show for me. Makes my reading the sin bin a much happier event

How much of the particularly high youth unemployment figure, is actually down to young folk being reluctant to take jobs that they feel are 'below' them, or their qualifications?

My 19 year old daughter started her first 'proper' job in September, after 2 years at college, working part time in a shop....Now, if during those 2 years you had suggested to her that this was what she would be doing at this point in her life, I'm pretty sure she would have scoffed and said there was no chance of getting her to do a menial shop job.

However, a need for money, a little self respect and a dawning realisation that the 'perfect' job isn't going to drop in her lap, made her apply for many jobs , resulting in the one she presently has.....She is enjoying it, but obviously has ambitions to move on and improve herself at some point.

It does make me wonder though, how many people are refusing work on the basis that it is seen as 'below' them.....Those jobs that many narrow minded folk accuse Eastern Europeans of taking from the British youngsters, are often the ones that are initially refused by many of our unemployed youth?

I’ve had to endure the most insulting of insults from people who should know better. The only thing I’ll be taking from this is my dignity because I’ve remained civil throughout.

I don’t think that I’m a waste of space and it is my opinion that is the most important to me personally. The only way I’ll ever convince people that I’m not a waste of space on here is through action . That action takes time and I’ve got a lifetime to showcase that I’m not a waste of space. But for now I do voluntary work and if that’s not enough to sway peoples opinion of me then so be it.

You are not actually trying to argue that the Labour years in government were actually beneficial from an economic point of view are you?

The facts are that the world economy was on the up, largely due to the growth in China, the UK hung onto it's coat tails.

There was money flowing into the exchequer on account of this.

Despite the above the Labour government managed to sqaunder and overspend, the like of which this country has NEVER seen before.

The result, the country is now broke and faces years of pain to pay back the deficit. (It's like trying to stop an oil tanker, the deficit will take years to slow down, stop and (hopefully) eventually get paid back.

I'm not a fan of any politician, but the last Labour goverment (Blair/Brown) was the worst in living memory, at least from an economic perspective.

This country is a mess because people having been living on credit in so called good times. Our aggregate, private + public debt is enormous relative to our economy - and only just behind Japan's. It's way, way higher than the failed states of the Eurozone.

People need to start living within their means. Beyond that we need to save because that is the only way we will expand our manufacturing base. The financial institutions need stable long-term funds from savings in order to lend to business.

It's the people, not just the politicians, that have created the mess but sadly none of the slime balls will accept their indivuals responsibilities for the mess.

Pretty much agree with what you say there tbh.

I would say though that Labour completely mismanaged their budgets. If they had put money away in the "good times" for the rainy day that is here now, there wouldn't be as great a need to cut public spending and therefore many more people wouldn't have to lose their jobs.

Isn't one of the biggest jokes on young people sending so many of them into further education? Rather than subsidise so many kids to go to uni for 3 years and then discover their qualification is almost worthless, a large number would be far better off learning a trade (I'd bet the cost to the taxpayer would be similar), or simply starting to work at 16 or 18 and not even bother with any form of further education.

BTW on a number of other threads Damo has openly talked about not bothering to apply for some jobs etc because he didn't like them (assuming in advance how he'd would be treated, not liking the hours etc). Instead he openly prefers everybody else to support him via benefits - that's the bit that's annoying everybody, and the thing he just doesn't get at all, whilst cr*pping on about his dignity etc.