I was not crying about not getting a pay rise - I was merely stating the facts, this is what happens out there in the "real world" - it isn't fair particularly on the lower paid. The approach of the union isn't right either - in printing it is proving counter-productive. Union members are not only not getting an increase the union's negotiating stance means they have no longer got a job!! I didn't ask for a pay rise, I didn't need to the company had already pre-empted that discussion!! I have a choice, no one is forcing me to stay with my current employer - we all have the ability to change our lives.

In December I was offered another job at a bigger printing company owned by PE - so that tells you who the firm is - for 15k a year more than my current salary, I chose to stay so your assumption of envy is way off the mark. Then that is typical, you have little comprehension of what is going on - preferring to fire insults and inaccuracies from up on the high toilet of diatribe.

Trade unions have a role, some do it better than other - Unite is more interested in political point scoring than it is servicing its members. Perhaps it needs to look at its own salary levels before chastising others about the inequity of it all. There is something pretty obscene about a GS in 150k plus spouting about fairness in labour rates!!

I little humour and play on words goes straight over your head woosh

Aye, ok.

I'm a member of the NUJ, although I don't have to be.

Fourteen years ago, I happened to be the Mother of Chapel (steward) on a Buggins' Turn basis when the management where I worked tried to sack the editor on trumped-up grounds and install the CEO's son-in-law.

The union were absolutely fantastic in supporting us right through to getting him reinstated, from helping me through legal minefields of which I had no previous knowledge to ensuring that we all ( we were a small chapel) received money while on strike for six weeks.

I'd remain a member on that basis alone.

These days I'm freelance and do most of my work for one client, who also employs a number of other freelances on a long-term basis. In the last couple of years, the union has negotiated for a recognition of our somewhat peculiar circumstances with a rise in day rate and also legal minimum paid leave. In this case, it was negotiation alone – but that meant management negotiating with one person on behalf of all of us – and not having to go through something like eight separate sets of negotiations.

Listen sunny. You whinge and you whine and you condemn others. Get over yourself – and then perhaps people won't rip you to shreds whenever you make a complete plonker of yourself

And I note you haven't answered my point: you were saying that your nasty boss refused a pay rise when you asked for one – presumably, given how concerned you are about financial prudence, the employer could have afforded it (or you wouldn't have asked, would you?) but chose not to because that is the reality of the situation. Not that they couldn't afford it, but because they can get away, in the current climate, with forcing a pay cut on you.

As for your being offered a better paid job but not taking it – then why cry about how your current boss didn't give you a pay rise that you asked for? Make your mind up.



This is a big leap forward for you. Well done.



Only if the same individual is espousing the same pay rates for everyone, regardless of what job they do. Has that happened?

Here you go Sal, spend a nice weekend getting to know trades unionists and finding out what they are really about. It's a couple of weeks before the start of the London Olympics, so no danger of getting caught up in all that hulabaloo, it really is a perfect family weekend.

[url=http://www.tolpuddlemartyrs.org.uk/index.php?page=2012-festival-and-rallyThe 2012 Tolpuddle Martyrs Festival[/url

[url=http://www.tolpuddlemartyrs.org.uk/index.php?page=programmePlenty to keep you interested[/url

You were an MOC as we'd call them, though that was very, very rare in the print game 30 years ago.

I can't believe you get paid leave as a freelancer. Jammy cow.

It's simply because some of us have been freelancing pretty much full time for the same client for so long that we're now covered by quite a lot of employment rights legislation. In my case, it's around five and a half years – in at least one case, it's 10 years and counting. That certainly wasn't on the cards, but I have turned down other work subsequently as a result.

There's a recognition that, at some stage, the situation needs to be properly formalised. And that was an interim move.

just an update MB

regarding my claim (via the union legal beagle) - the case was upheld (or I failed to win) by the Works Tribunal because my star witness ,who is no longer with the company and who I belived to be my best mate agreed to take a generous bung from the company and signed a document stating everything I said was false and to never testify against the company....

just the sort of mate you need ?

I'm sorry to hear that, sanjunien. Shitty.

I'd suggest, though, that although it's too late in this case for you, it's an illustration of just why being in a union can be important – you can't just assume (as some here seem to) that an employer will always be good and decent and never take the proverbial.

the problem is that the guy who was going to testify for me (my old boss at the company) managed to get a job in switzerland which is far enough away from me to not bump into me again,even by chance - his testimony would have cost the company about £40K though I don't believe the company would have even gone to court - they would have settled out of court

they offered him a few months salary,that's all but it was enough for him to not want to tell the truth - talk about losing faith in human nature ?

the company have got away with murder - the union has been great but ineffectual against such bribery etc

I have one month to appeal but there's no point unfortunately...believe it or not,it's not the money I was after,just some justice but I didn't account for a 'mate' screwing me like that ...

... not much of a mate ... the word Judas springs to mind!

I called him worse on the phone when he eventually agreed to speak with me...

for the first time in my life (honestly) I said to him in my best french and really meant it " I just hope you rot in your grave you mercenary "

i'm normally such a placid bloke too...

I can't believe that would be legal under French law

Well worth taking a weeks holiday in the place where he has relocated to and ensuring that you "accidently" walk across his viewpoint several times every day for seven days without acknowledging him, by the end of the week he'll be a nervous wreck and torn between stopping you and asking what the hell you are doing here or not daring to say anything unless you are on a murderous vengeance trip.

nothing to stop a company giving an ex employee a 'golden hand shake' - the signed document is completely legal - all he's doing is promising not to say anything bad about what happened about his time with the company
It's the same as a confidentiality clause which is included in just about every employment contract

Don't blame you one iota.

Did he make any sort of an attempt at an excuse?

he's relocated to Geneva - pointless me going over there, I couldn't even afford a coffee !

he'll get his pay back one day....

not really into 'murderous trips' though,unless there's a decent game to see on the way ?

You don't have to murder him mate....There are numerous other ways to fook him over!

nah,did for the dosh plus he was supposed to give three months notice but was let off early from his contract if he agreed not to testify against the company - so not only did he get a few months salary as a 'golden handshake' from his ex employers he also managed to start his new job earlier than expected and get an even better salary !
He went from Greenkeeper of a crap course around here to Manager of a big golf club in Geneva on almost double the salary - i'll give him something,he talks a good game anyway !




!

And are usually not worth the paper that they're written on.

I can't believe that any EU, let alone French law would prevent any ex or current employee from telling the truth.

Anyway, back on topic.

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17753488Tanker drivers reject deal[/url

Note for Sal: The drivers' representatives, all 60 of them, rejected the deal, not the UNITE union

A deal the union expected to be accepted too.

I've never heard of a 'standard' contract which in some way prevented an ex-employee saying anything about a company unless it involved the disclosure of confidential information.

probably like in many countries a contract of employment isn't obligatory in France though most employers make out a contract - almost every contract i've signed in France has had a confidentiality clause included as well a 'non concurance ' clause ie to say that you won't set up in business within say, a 100 radius of the ex company should you leave the company voluntarily.
The standard confidentiality clause says that yo won't disclose company information to a third party which may be to the detriment of your company.
In my case,the ex employee (and ex-friend) found alternative employment (better job,higher pay etc) but was bound by the terms of his contract to serve three months notice.The man asked if he could leave earlier than the three months in order to start the new job early (for the higher salary etc) and the company agreed so long as in return,he would sign a document stating that he would not testify against the company in my favour as he had originally agreed to do.
The agreement is between him and the company and is not illegal however morally wrong it may appear to be.