In either case this is an act of terrorism, in the general sense and in a more specific legal sense to what I know, at least so far as the UK goes.




The perpetrator did implore the camera man and more generally the British people to do-away with the government, on the other hand, and that's (b) and (c) in section 1. Political/religious coercion, the means being serious violence.

I'm confused as to why there is any doubt this is an act of terrorism but I'm not a legal person. Seems pretty clear cut to me

But he mentioned gang violence and killings. Possibly that's what Rooster Booster is getting confused with?

I see the EDL have been out last night on the streets in their balaclavas. Do they have something to hide by disguising themselves as I would have thought that they'd have no problem showing their faces ?

It might but I would say no because I don't see evidence that there was any direction to the attack, unlike the one yesterday where the individual had a political/religious agenda he was trying to push.

I think they're mentally afflicted but that's fairly point of view based.

From what I've seen most of them have reason to wear masks, not blessed with good genes that lot. Then again I'm in no position to remark on such things

They're all Muslim women, so have to cover their faces

I wonder what you all think about what I think is a double standard at play. I've read many sickening comments on Twitter and Facebook, calling on death to Muslims, "Pakis"(lol wut?), let's go burn mosques and drag muslim children from their schools... That sort of thing. Hundreds if not thousands of comments like that, seemingly the police aren't all that interested in these people. I have no doubt for the most part it's racists and idiots blowing off steam and that they're not really going to take to the streets. But I've seen much milder stuff than this www.youtube.com/watch?v=80-wV5TlZ8o result in investigations, trials and convictions.

I wonder what you all think about what I think is a double standard at play. I've read many sickening comments on Twitter and Facebook, calling on death to Muslims, "Pakis"(lol wut?), let's go burn mosques and drag muslim children from their schools... That sort of thing. Hundreds if not thousands of comments like that, seemingly the police aren't all that interested in these people. I have no doubt for the most part it's racists and idiots blowing off steam and that they're not really going to take to the streets. But I've seen much milder stuff than this www.youtube.com/watch?v=80-wV5TlZ8o result in investigations, trials and convictions.

Its a stupid question which is always asked by those who's preferred response is one of kneejerking fekkwittery - you could start by pointing out at which post I mentioned that anyone had a "right" to practice any form of terrorism or where I have dismissed anything as a "price worth paying" ?

But you won't.

Until the investigations are concluded how do you know they weren't just a pair of deluded psychotic morons who latched onto this "cause" compared to any other?

They aren't your typical Muslim Extremest as they are still alive i.e. not Martyred! Why didn't they attack the Army Barracks? Why didn't they attack the public once having got their soldier?

As I said Lord Reid has already decided they [iare[/i terrorists and May wants the snoopers charter back. In my view it would be far better if it turns out they were as I describe.

Lending weight to their motives in describing them as terrorists and what they did an act of terror instead of murder doesn't do anyone any favours.

If after the investigation is concluded it turns out they have been off to training camps and were groomed for the attack, fair enough. Until them lumping this in the same basket as 9/11 , 7/7 or any IRA attacks is just not helpful and is in fact dangerous IMO.

Well said. This is a war and all right minded people should stand up for decency against the forces of darkness. I felt sick when i saw this on tv. What a horrible hellhole our country has become.

OK, he never used 'apples and pairs' or 'cor blimey Guv' but he sounded like most the teenage kids you here from the capital, white or black.

Rubbish. It just isn't.

[urlhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22275280[/url

If it's that bad, maybe Dally will help you set up somewhere comfy

I'd love to lick your Klitoris

Well that escalated quickly.

They must have had some previous as its been confirmed that both men were known to security services but had been categorised as not posing an immediate risk.

The typo doesn't change the meaning, dearie.



I'm still waiting for Rooster to provide evidence a rise in 'similar' attacks - ie violent ones, motivated by jihadism.

Every part of the country experiences violent crime - and London is no different. We have/have had a specific problem here with gang-related crime, some of it with fatal consequences for the entirely innocent. I temper my comment with the "have had" option because reports suggest that this is down currently, and indeed, reports of gang-related violence are themselves down.

Personally, I think that there are big problems within elements of some communities that boil down to integration. I've said this quite specifically inaccurate of blogs, in relation to rape/abuse. But equally, those issues are not remotely limited to immigrant or new communities. And while - again personally - I distrust most religion and deeply dislike all fundamentalisms, the idea that all of any Muslims are jihadists is as much errant nonsense as it would be to state that all Christians are homophobes, and it does nothing to tackle the genuine issue of radicalisation - or brainwashing, which is what we really mean.

There seem to be issues particularly surrounding young males who are first/second generation British. When I was in Germany recently, I was talking with a young German man of Turkish origin, who, while entirely Westernised, feels that, when he visits Turkey, he is not treated as a Tuek, but that he not treated as a German in Germany.there you have a big issue.

Add to that such things as unemployment, particularly among young people - see the rioting in Sweden at present and even here a couple of summers since - and you start to see toxic combinations of things.

The Internet increases the difficulties in dealing with these, because even if you were somehow to ensure that every aa imam in the UK for instance, was 'safe', then you still cannot ensure that individuals and informal groups cannot access radicalising, jihadist materials from abroad.

We have to beware of going down any Nazi-like route of collective punishment. We equally have to remember that those calling for vigilante 'justice' etc do so in direct contravention of our own long-held laws and freedoms from Magna Carta on. To do so, iin effect, would be to give in to any jihadist aims. Ad it one of those supreme ironies that some of those screaming the greatest at present show themselves to be little different from the very sort of people that they direct their venom against.

Some areas are. I drove to South Shields and Sunderland today and passed some of the nicest places you could wish for, but also saw some places I would'nt send my mother in law to. All in a 150 mile drive.

On balance, Britain is a safe, decent place to live but lets not kid ourselves that there are not places which are appalling.

Our country is a 'horrible hellhole', but you think it could be improved by deporting anyone unwilling to stand up in public and read a government-approved statement professing their unquestioning loyalty to the place?

Not a typo in sight sweetie

Named as Drummer Lee Rigby, 25 years old and the father of a two year old child. RIP young man.

But it's always been the case - this isn't new or governed by the single factor of immigration or migration.

Just one example: Borough was, at the end of the 19the century, a police no-go area. It's doubtful that it was polite society. But now, it's incredibly trendy and with a far lower population than was estimated then.

I live in Haggerston in Hackney and have done for 18 years this July. It's changed out of Ll recognition. Indeed, the Kingsland Estate, at one end of 'my' road was apparently considered one of the very worst in the UK. It's been run-down as long as I've known it, but hasn't been that bad, and is now being rebuilt to house an ncaingly well-to-do, rather trendy population.

In the 1960s, the Krays and other gangs ran up to this area.

We need to be careful in being too rosy-tinted about the past.

Be'ave yourself.

You've been amongst them Frenchies too long.

Didn't the Nazis go down the route of swearing allegiance etc? Along with many other dictatorial, totalitarian regimes. Indeed, isn't that one of the hallmarks of such?

Never said it wasn't bad in the past, just responding to a post.

My first home was in a $h!thole of an area, no inside tap or bog, but you try and tell the kids of today !!! Sorry couldn't resist it.