Who is the more uncivilised? The west has dropped nuclear bombs, billions of tonnes of other bombs, we sell billions of £'s of weapons to areas and profit off of ensuing conflict.

The west has travelled the globe raping and pillaging natural resources and murdering/enslaving people, put people in concentration camps etc.

Completely false narrative

Correct - even Gaddafi predicted the rise of jihadists following his departure, [url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/07/gaddafi-warned-blair-of-threat-from-opening-door-to-al-qaidabut he wasn't taken seriously.[/url

I would suggest you are the one that's desperate. As always when losing an argument petty insults are thrown. You have accused me of being cheap ,cowardly and pathetic ,presumably because my veiws are different to yours.
You are still persisting with this bizarre daily mail fixation. I merely pointed out that one paper is right wing and the other is left wing. It's not my problem that you consider that the mail is a nazi outlet. I could not give a tinkers cuss about the daily mail, although I presume you read it to form the opinions you have.
Even if all bnp voters transferred allegiance to ukip the number of votes is still minute, so your argument falls down on that point.
You then accuse a large part of ukip to be racist, presumably because they feel with some justification that the country has just about had enough of uncontrolled immigration.
Quite a large number of ukip voters have come over from the Labour Party, chiefly because the Labour Party has been instrumental in flooding the country with cheap labour. Thus turning it's back on the working man.
Part of today's political problems is that anybody pointing out these problems are immediately labelled racist.

[url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/reality-check-are-eu-migrants-really-taking-british-jobsSimply. Not. True.[/url

The main takeaway from that article, for anyone unable to be ar$ed to read it, is as follows:

The LSE’s Jonathan Wadsworth said: “The bottom line, which may surprise many people, is that EU immigration has not harmed the pay, jobs or public services enjoyed by Britons. In fact, for the most part it has likely made us better off. So, far from EU immigration being a “necessary evil” that we pay to get access to the greater trade and foreign investment generated by the EU single market, immigration is at worse neutral, and at best, another economic benefit.”

It does beg one question - why are wages not rising when employment is? Is this a consequence of less expensive labour being an option?

Doesn't it beg the question - why do so many morons persist with the idea that EU migration took jobs from UK citizens and overloaded public services?!

Do you think that the 1% public sector increases have increased average pay or had a negative effect on wage inflation ?
It's quite incredible that the Tories bang on about the number of jobs created during their 7 years in charge but, the "quality" of so many of these new employment opportunities is truly awful, almost akin to the YOP schemes of the 80's.
Apprenticeships, zero hours, low value self employment ?? now of which have been brought about by immigration but, you have to believe what you want to believe.
Maybe "strong and stable" Britain was a myth, you decide and if it is/was so strong and stable, why would a responsible government jepordise things by calling an election, it sure as hell wasn't to have smooth Brexit negotiations.
May had 3 years left at the helm, ample time to carry out Brexit negotiations, which have a 2 year time frame.
You could say that she is being reckless with the country's future

I personally witnessed eu migration taking jobs from local workers. I was an electrical sub contractor working on major projects when the first trickle of polish builders arrived. This then became a tidal wave, remember Blair and mandelson thinking thirteen thousand would come. It was in the region of seven hundred thousand. The self employed rate for joiners and plasterers at that time was about £150 per day. The polish lads would work for half that. The major building contractors were overjoyed at this outcome. Even the safety signs onsite were in polish and English. I have nothing against the polish workers we all got on well together. They all worked hard and sent money home to families in Poland .
If you recall at that time Germany wanted a seven year period before taking in polish workers. Although the polish lads I worked with had no love of the Germans. So would not go to Germany under any circumstances.
Wages more or less work on the supply and demand. If the economy is booming employers have to pay more money to attract workers. Since we have uncontrolled borders the Mike Ashley's of this world have had a field day shipping in cheap labour. Sometimes not even having the decency to pay the minimum wage.

Always quite amusing to see these sort of leftie people like yourself on social media who preach such wholesome moral compasses and that we should be tolerant to everyone and tells us we shouldn't give into hate, yet love to call people morons and racists at the drop of a hat when they have opposing views to you. Pure hypocrites.

Just answer the question - even for you that can't be so difficult. How coherent your reply might be is another question.

That's ok then - your one anecdotal example of a 'tidal wave' of Polish electricians engulfing your own workplace, trumps the empirical evidence provided by the LSE; Britain really is sick of experts.



I didn't refer to any kind of moral compass - I provided factual evidence that the assertion about EU migration was false. Being a moron is entirely without race or creed, so I see no dichotomy at all in being both left leaning, whilst considering that people who believe things that clearly aren't true, are idiots.

[url=https://www.ft.com/content/83e7e87e-fe64-11e6-96f8-3700c5664d30?mhq5j=e3It would seem not.[/url Sorry about that.

Unfortunately you have misread my posting. It was immigrant builders I referred to. Luckily electricians at that time for various reasons weren't affected. The practice of Mike Ashley and other major companies advertising for cheap labour in east Europe was well documented on television. In fact Jeremy corbyn has promised to stop this practice should he gain power.
With respect to whatever any evidence the LSE produces I can only comment on my experiences . This as I posted previously was observing the undercutting of individual British building workers on a large scale.

Across the UK, nearly 12% of the 2.1 million construction workers come from abroad, mainly from the EU. There are 350,000 people who work in London’s construction sector, of which just over half are from the UK, while 27% are from the EU. London needs an extra 13,000 new workers each year until 2021 to plug the skills gap needed in London’s construction workforce. The vast majority of the building sector opposes Brexit, even those who traditionally support the Tories.

Interesting figures/stastics , I assume that your reference to majority of building sector opposition to brexit ,means the employers.
Quite understandable as they could lose a major source of cheap labour. Both the tories and labour have never really invested in major training programs for young people. Neither in construction or engineering disciplines. Obviously we are now suffering a skills shortage.

I don't know if that's the case or not, since I have no knowledge of either sector; but it does ring true.

Hopefully, Labour's plans to improve educational outcomes and make FE and re-training more accessible to many more people will go some way to addressing it; and I believe the new approach to Apprenticeships will bear fruit in the longer term - it certainly seems that way in the sector in which I do have expertise.

Don't come on here being all reasonable. Yes, construction in this country is dominated by a handful of major housebuilders on the housing side while the major capital schemes by probably less than 10 companies. The irony is none of them employ their own craftsmen. It is all sub-contracted out to labour who have little or no empathy with the client or the project. There has been, as you say, no apprenticeships for many years. One faint hint of optimism is that this is very gradually changing recently.

The Tories certainly did their best to ditch the concept of the apprenticeship in the 80s. Presumably because most of the industries where youngsters traditionally took apprenticeships were pretty much shut down.
My own personal opinion is that as a group, the young tend not to vote in the numbers of say pensioners.
So presumably that is why in the past 7 years the Tories have done away with EMA, trebled university tuition fees etc.. ie all policies that have been to the detriment of young ( potential) voters.
If you don't bother voting you suffer the consequences, sadly.

And the very same reason Blair kept increasing benefits - his core vote

Fake news. He spent the extra welfare budget in surestart centres etc and took more people out of poverty.

You're absolutely right - the Tories have traditionally appealed to the old because they're the ones who get out and vote; which is why it's even more bizarre that in this election campaign, they turned against them at the last minute with dementia tax, refusal to guarantee the triple lock and the means testing of winter fuel allowance. Arrogance?

Meanwhile, it does appear, at least in my particular echo chamber, that Corbyn has galvanised the young; it would be a really positive outcome if they turn out in bigger numbers - and he makes good on his promise to lower the voting age to 16 - that would force politicians of all stripes to engage with a very different demographic.

Arrogance or a realisation that future spending/investment needs to be paid for and that should ride above political manoeuvring. Thats brave politics not the appeasing 'hope' that Jezza comes out with.

Apparently over three thousand people are on the security forces watch list. Perhaps it's me being too simplistic but any of this scum who has no British passport should be deported immediately.
Unfortunately the current human rights act forbids that. Jezza is in complete agreement with this act. If he wins power ,he has no plans in place to change anything with this act.

By increasing their benefits - welfare spending in the last 10 years of the Labour government increased by 45% in real terms - housing benefit alone increased by 9bn during this time. These are facts.

Most of the welfare budget goes on old age pensions.