I would also prefer serious music programmes however I doubt that would produce bags of money for people like Cowell.
I remember the Housemartins saying they were not in it for the money, then Heaton formed The Beautiful South, and Norman Cook as we know went his own way, tbf though they did not initially do mainstream. I think it is a fine line because if the artist is good enough they will attract fame and fortune but what annoys me is they seem to sell their souls to mainstream pop, there are markets for blues, soul etc is it greed by the artist or the record company's or both..I think I am getting old because all I see on MTV is boobs hanging out and the same monotonous sounds

At the age of 55 I am fortunate enough to have been weaned on the sounds of the 60s, on Motown, Stax, The Beatles, The Stones, The Who, my dad was a club singer who's era was the 40's and 50's, of Sinatra, Bennett, etc, the radio was never off in our house, his music, our music, when I was 15 the year was 1971 and the music charts were a cornucopia of British Prog Rock, American Soul, British Rock, Glam Rock and the Motown and Stax that we had been prevented from listening to in the 60s thanks to import restrictions and tarriffs, in that year my dads era was 30 years behind us and seemed like a million miles hence from what was going on in a 15 year olds world.

Fast forward to today and I've just spent this evening painting away to Quadrophenia and an assortment of Stones output from the 60s and 70s, I'm still listening to that music, loud, as loud as the headphones will allow and tonight my 23 year old daughter came in and asked me to turn my music down - my dad used to tell me to do that 30 years ago, I should be stone deaf by now instead of just partly.

The main point is that my two daughters will happily listen to "my" music in the car and despite me complaining constantly I will listen to most of the stuff they like, there are some very talented singers and songwriters out there at the moment, I use Spotify to follow a lot of new released material and there is a lot of good young talent that has been "discovered" via the traditional route of working hard at their art and having some editorial control over it by writing their own material.

Occasionally X Factor will give them a platform, but more often than not they churn out another succession of what blokes of my age (I'm looking at you Walsh) think their own kids want to listen to and now, after ten to fifteen years of the conveyor belt running we can all see right through it and most of the 20 year olds that I speak to can too, the likes of Cowell and Walsh have done their best to stifle the chart market into accepting their view of what "Kids" want and this year at least it seems to be business as usual.

I would like some serious music programmes but I think radio is the medium for that, on TV they would never be as popular as X factor. The reason X factor is popular is because it is an entertainment show and as such has licence to do things just to keep viewer figures high like their 'twists' and putting comedy acts through which a serious music programme couldn't do. A serious music programme would attract serious music fans but wouldn't capture the attention of any old jo bloggs who wants some lighthearted Saturday night entertainment, which is what X factor is.

Now on the Housemartins reference, they are one of my favourite all time bands. I don't think you could accuse them of breaking up for the money, I got the impression Norman Cook wanted to do his own thing and the others just sort of evolved in the type of music they made, I didn't think they became massively more mainstream although the Beautiful South lost the subtle social and political commentary that the Housemartins had. Still - can you imagine the Housemartins turning up to audition for X factor, they wouldn't have even got to the stage of facing the judges for audition.

I think Simon Moran (Warrington Wolves owner) was their promoter.

That reminds me of a story I always like to tell people. My dad was in a band with Ian Curtis in his younger days and at the first one or two of their gigs, a few people remarked that musically they weren't too bad, but the lead singer was utter shiite

I remember calling in to King Eddy one Saturday lunchtime, just before christmas 1986. The Housemartins walked in and one old pi[is[/ishead approached Heaton saying: "you're them aren't you? You're them off the telly, go on then, sing it"

A brief discussion resulted in "them" turning their backs to the bar and performing Caravan of Love perfectly. Heaton then went round with the hat, dumped the dosh on the bar and told the landlady to put it in the charity box.

They then simply supped up and left.

I think some people are a bit too bleeding heart about this idea that a group or artist "sells out" or sells their soul to the devil if they achieve success in terms of sales. For instance, I don't think that Beautiful South "sold out", as whatever else, the fact is that they produced (as in wrote, sang, played and produced) a whole array of near-perfect pop, which has stood the test of time very well, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with a popular song just because it's popular. Even God (i.e Neil Young, for the insouciants) did one (Heart of Gold) and while MOR it is, it's an all-time classic nonetheless and the history of music would be that bit poorer without it.

Also, while I admire singers who can write good material themselves, even more those that can compose the music too, I am very happy to include pure vocalists, even those who never wrote a notable lyric or melody, among my musical heroes. Some people's talent is in their voice, and occasional genius in how some can perform with that voice.

Sinatra for instance.

Ben Elton got it spot on in Chart Throb where he says the contestants are categorised into 4 categories :-

Mingers - those who are utterly desperate, there to be laughed at, will do whatever is asked of them on stage
Clingers - the 'needy' ones who 'want this so much', often with a sad back story
Blingers - those convinced of their own greatness despite having achieved nothing
Singers - those who can actually sing but who also need to fall into one of the other categories too

The ideal X Factor contestant is someone who exhibits overlapping traits of all 4 categories.

I agree I was not suggesting they exploited for money or anything like that, my point was their talent led them to earn money ....I loved the Housemartins and followed the Beautiful South I have seen them play many times. I met Heaton and Cook when they first formed loads of times, they went to Hull Uni, and used to drink regularly in Grafton Pub (my hubby knew them a lot better than I did) not sure about Cook but I know Paul has not particularly changed who he is, he still writes music for some very famous artists, the only difference now from then is he is loaded!

The other day while chatting to the barmaid about the Fix Factor, I got asked to go and sup in the other bar.

It was dire on Saturday.

Come on Frankie!!!!
Son of Wagner.
Win it for all the talentless people out there.

Something must have got broken on Saturday.
It must have been serious, because on Sunday Dermot was asking the panel who they think had smashed it.

Didn't Richard Keys get sacked for something like that?

Indeed he did.
A slightly different connotation of course.

This is the way I respond to the X factor / britains got no talent shows

I love Bens writing style , picking on modern culture and then setting funny,interesting usually in a thriller or murder mystery , my favourite was the Big Brother one , 12 contestants , 26 cameras , 34 microphones , 1 murder and nobody knows who dun nit

, fantastic

Briefly taking X Factor seriously for a second...

Who in the name of holy hell is voting for Frankie and/or Janet? They are both horrendous. It's bad enough they got to the live finals. Wagner was ten times better than either of them. Even CHICO was better.

To be fair to Janet she can sing certain songs very well with her cute Irish twang.

Frankie is just being voted for by the 7-17 year old girls who fancy him. It's safe to write the whole series off, there is no real talent on it.

Janet is and will be an excellent singer of the limited range of songs which suit her quirky vocal style. As well as that individual style, she also has the sort of Irish ingenue image which they will use to flog folksy compilations. Frankie OTOH genuinely doesn't have any redeeming feature that I can see, he can't sing a note and already looks like a 40-year-old accountant being attacked about the head by a Maine Coon.

The essential answer is that in pop, the packaging is probably at least twice as important as the product, and before they grow out of it and say "what was I thinking", Frankie has the support of enough inbetweenies, and presumably the Cats Defence League, to stay in the comp in the short term.

Still, nobody will beat the inimitable Johnny

NO SHE CAN'T. She can't sing in tune. If she was 6 years old, yes, maybe it would be "cute", but still you'd only tell her she's "good" because she'd be "6", and telling a six year old, "Actually, you know what, you're absolute crud, give it up" is, for some reason, considered socially unacceptable.

I wonder if these girls would still fancy Frankie after he'd infected them with some kind of unpleasant STD? If a woman had taken Amelia Lily into an underground car-park, followed by another unknown blonde less than 2 hours later for "hanky-panky", she'd be branded a slut/slag/slapper/something else beginning with "sl".

This series is a bit of a write-off though. As an avid fan year on year, I'm finding myself increasingly thinking "meh".

Mark this moment... we actually agree on something. Blimey.



Maybe. They're called "Nursery Rhymes".



ROFLMAO. No, really, that's what I'm doing. I'll prove it later.



I actually like Johnny. I mean, we all know he was this years novelty act, but he's actually pretty good. Meanwhile I can't stand Kitty... but, aside from her terrible performance of Who Wants To Live Forever in week 1, I can't deny she's actually very good. Craig blew me away in week 1 (Jar of Farts), but has gone downhill to merely "safe" performances... good enough, but not show-stopping.

TBH, I think the most consistently decent act has been "Misha B", if you forget about the rapping and dafter haircuts than Sean Long.

Disappointed HaBABEis went on Sunday, but to be honest she's been poor for the live shows.

I thought Kitteh was the best surprisingly. Although she does have a tendency to shout rather than sing - can't deny there's never a dull moment when she's on stage and I'm actually warming to her in some of the pre-performance video diary things.

What is it with her and her bum cheeks?
''Look half my ass is hanging out folks ... I have the sagging ass of a seventy year old.''

For anyone who cares, it seems that little scrote Frankie Coconuts has been kicked off the show.

From what I saw of him he'll struggle to get anywhere with such a poor voice, and will probably survive for a little while on this lame rock n' roll character he's been desperately creating, before slipping back into obscurity.

Sounds like a cue for giving Johnny a reprieve to me . . . otherwise they are one week short of acts

www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/ ... o-x-factor

www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/ ... o-x-factor

guessing some sort of "sing off" between Johnny and The Risk this weekend - they will want to get the boyband back in if they can.

My guess is whichever one takes the song and makes it their own will be going back in.

Frankie is going to take some time out before continuing his music career. Firstly what 'career' and secondly take the next 50 years out and do us all a favour.