more of a shame that 3000 plus people are not with us because of a British decision to partition Ireland and a complete failure by succesive governments up until the 1990s to do anything tangible about a discriminatory state organisation which led to war in the first place.

A war the IRA/INLA have lost.

I wonder what this woman and the tens of thousands who were at the mercy of the provisionals and the loyalist murderers would think of some of the clueless $h1t posted on this thread. Actually it's fairly obvious what they would think. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mairead_Maguire Easy to forget that Sinn Fein were not the only political party that represented the Catholic population of NI, but they were the only one that murdered their opponents.

I wonder what this woman and the tens of thousands who were at the mercy of the provisionals and the loyalist murderers would think of some of the clueless $h1t posted on this thread. Actually it's fairly obvious what they would think. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mairead_Maguire Easy to forget that Sinn Fein were not the only political party that represented the Catholic population of NI, but they were the only one that murdered their opponents.

I am quite sure the country would have continued to fight in response. Whether we would have used spineless c0ckheaded bastarrrds to murder little kids on a Saturday afternoon in the middle of town I’m not sure.

Will you learn how to quote please?!!


Oh I'm sorry, what is required to pass your approval test?


Because each conflict is different. The causes behind each conflict are different. The reasons for each action are different. As time passes the standards of the age change and what is deemed acceptable in conflict change. Your comparisons are pointless and a sign of weakness that you can't stick to the issue we're discussing, you feel the need to bring up historical events in some vain attempt to back yourself up.


Right, so where does it state "the British killed a million children". Yes, a international political effort may have increased child mortality in some areas of Iraq and yes, we do have to accept some responsibility for that.

I'm just surprised you've not brought up the potato famine yet.




But you are a wannabe paddy, aren't you?


Is that right? I can think enough to operate the quote button and form grammatically correct sentences with correct spelling, thank you. I think you must scan-read posts, because you certainly don't take much in and keep throwing out contradictory replies.


Hang on, I thought I wasn't a thinker, and everything was black and white? So have I made my mind up or not?

Let me say it again. Just because I understand a cause, doesn't mean I agree with it. I understand the cause of Irish Republicanism, but having grown up in the shadow of their threat, having witnessed the Manchester bomb and having a good friend (a Catholic Republican) who lost her father (Brian McCrory) at Omagh, I still find McGuinness' involvement in politics distasteful.

Ps, I've not read the Sun or any similar tabloid in about 20 years.


I believe rumpelstiltskin has already embarrassed you over this little paddy legend.


I believe the shot fired by the Official IRA sniper probably had a lot to do with it.

Seriously, the Saville enquiry was only ever going to have one outcome. No-one on the Republican side was ever going to admit to being armed, or having a nail bomb, or firing a shot. Meanwhile, in the real world, that march was full of IRA of all description. However, I accept that once the first bullets had been fired the Paras lost control and their actions were deplorable.


I'm sure you've convinced yourself you read something deep and meaningful into Four Lions beyond the comedy and the darkly satirical message it sends about British jihadis and their cause.

By the way, my grandparents were English, Scottish, Sicilian...and Irish. I think you need another insult.

I've already stated my views on the IRA tactics of killing innocent civillians earlier in this thread.....However, it seems to me that you agree with me that any establishment figure of the opposition is a fair target??

With that in mind, we come back to the original argument, that the British Government and the Head of State were legitimate targets of the IRA and so rather than being 'murdering b**tards' they were actually fighting a fair war when aiming their guns and bombs at Mountbatten, members of the Armed Forces in Ulster and the Grand Hotel in Brighton?

Bearing in mind the British army accepted they could never beat the IRA that is debatable. Bearing in mind where this thread started i would also question whether you are correct.

What you do show is the fact that you often present yourself as a bit of a lefty it goes to show that scratch your surface and under that skin you are still Red White and Blue.

People like you always remind me of a quote by Trotsky,

"The British Socialist who fails to support by all means possible the uprisings in Ireland desrves to be branded with infamy if not a bullet".

And the significance of this is what. Are you trying to deny some british identity now. Fair enough it must be hard been British and been part of their baby killing actions in Iraq ( oops i have slipped into Sun mode.

Had the Nationalists simply targeted the RUC and the British Military, possibly even members of the Government, then there may be some credence in that point of view.
Although, for me personally, the ideal of a "fair war" does raise a smile, and is the sort of fruit bat loopery the likes of Durham would come out with. Admitedly he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer, that would be a stakeknife eh Durham?



However, you cannot conveniently ignore for the sake of your own conscience, the many cruel acts and sectarian violence they wrought on the civilian population in Northern Ireland and beyond, from their political aspirations.

What was the political point they were trying to make at Kingsmill in 1976 when they stopped a minibus taking workers home and massacred the 10 Protestants onboard?..... Omagh?..... Inniskillen?..... the many people who simply disappeared after being taken away for a chat by that killing Unit commanded by Gerry Adams?
Hopefully though, the [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/northernireland/9014697/Jean-McConville-one-of-Belfasts-stubborn-ghosts.htmlJEAN McConville[/url killing will come back to bite the master revisionist on the . Incidentally, that's my favourite photo of the pair of them.

I readily acknowledge the conditions that Catholics had to live under in NI in the sixties were deplorable, and had to change. I also understand the particular sectarian edge that Irish history brings into the equation, and the easy and quick acceptance of violence as simply another option. Adams made that clear with his "Armalite and the Ballot box" spiel.

But if you have enough personal conviction to join a terrorist organisation in pursuit of those ideals, then don't complain if the by your actions you meet somebody in uniform, armed with a large rifle, and with the authority of HM Government coming towards you.

Milltown is full of those who failed to understand the meaning of the word, consequences.

No, just a sure sign you're an imbecile. The quote facility is simple to use.


Take it as you like, I'm not after your approval.


Erm, I believe you were talking about WW2, imbecile.


That's all very nice. Still doesn't say "the British killed a million children", does it?


Of course you are. I bet you can do the accent and wear a green hat on Paddy's Day.




Just looking at your posts makes me look better.


I can only assume you read the scrawlings of a small child in that case.


All sorts of people get seconded to the Special Forces. Pilots, medics, intelligence, other troops. That doesn't make them a member of the Special Forces. But that doesn't make such a good paddy legend to tell down the pub, does it?


No, the Official IRA gunman on William St fired at troops at the Presbyterian Church shortly after 3.55, just after the very first few shots were fired.


Not really. Their actions weren't justifiable. But if you think there were no other factors and the Paras simply started shooting for no reason you're an idiot.


Aw, go on, I'm intrigued.


Must harder being a plastic paddy and celebrating them blowing up women and children in town centres.

The IRA lost full stop and that is obvious. As for being a lefty - wrong. I hate the IRA and what they did in the name of their cause as they were a bunch of cowards who hid behing the Catholic Church and still do I bet. Are you deliberately trying to antagonise people on here by any chance ? One thing I always found funny were the Irish Americans who supported The Cause but yet knew nothing at all about it and found the IRA a romantic idea to get behind those poor IRA people fighting the tyrannical British Government. People like me ? Just because you don't agree with what I say is no excuse for that sort of inferrence is it ? Funny you should mention Leon Trotsky - he got a pickaxe in the head.

It was always good to hear on the news of a dead IRA member ( or more ) and it's just a shame that not all of them were finished off as they are a bunch of low life cowards who deserve nothing but contempt. It's a shame that no-one put a bullet in the head of Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams but we can live in hope and have two pieces of walking and talking excrement removed from this world.

I remember being in a bar in Hell's Kitchen, New York in April 2003. I was out with the cast of "Vincent in Brixton" and things were getting messy. Two very loud and obnoxious local lads found out I was English and declared to all around that "I should get out of Ireland".

I tried to take it in good humour but they carried on a bit so I stopped them and asked had they ever been to Ireland (no), were they Irish (some of the ancestors apparently were), what should be done with the Protestant population if the British left Northern Ireland (blank stares), and whether they thought the Good Friday Agreement was a positive development (blank stares).

Then I told them that not only was I part Irish, I visited the island of Ireland regularly and am godfather to two Northern Irish boys. Then I told them that just as Al Qaeda had flattened Manhattan 2 years earlier, the (P)IRA had flattened my home city, as well as killing 2 young boys a few miles in attacks down the road.

To be fair they took it well and backed down, and left us all well alone.

A fair comment and I understand why these two people would stoke up these sorts of feelings in people.

However, do you apply the same thinking to Bush, Blair, Brown, Cameron, etc?

Fascinating stuff DMW. Quite happy to jump on the anti Tory bandwagon hence i assumed you were towards the left. What i do get though is the stench of sectarianism that comes through in your posts. Anyone would think you were a Rangers fan or their Edinburgh equivalent Hearts. A bit of scots presbyterianism in there maybe.

I was waiting for the Cowards bit which is why i pre-empted it by using the Francis Hughes story earlier. Regardless of which slightly differing accounts from me and RS hardly the actions of a coward.

I must have touched a nerve with my Trotsky quote, but again i wrongly assumed that you were on the left and i used it to challenge the hyposcrisy of thos left wingers who quite happily support National Liberation struggles in palestine, SA or Rhodesia but do not have the Cojones to challenge British nationalism.

It was amazing how the 1st couple of years everyone hated Thatcher but a little war in the South Atlantic and the left had no idea what to do. Wham bam everyone is waving the flag and geting behind our boys.

I was going to write that it would have been worrying to have you next to me on the workers barricades as the workers seize power. Then the army march against us ready to smash our heads in with rifle butts and poor little you saying, " we cannot shoot back they are flying the Union Jack and singing rule britannia".

However after reading your posts i am fairly certain that at the first whiff of being accused of being anti patriotic you would have been off like a flash.

Good reference there about steakknife i also wondered about DMW .

.

I had suggested that in war you choose the side you are on and have to accept the good and the bad consequences of that. Something i have never shied away from particularly the death of all the innocent civillians. Unlike you however i can see with two eyes rather than one and recognise that terrible actions were carried out by both sides. You however only seem to see the actions of one side and choose to condemn them.



That happened the day after A Loyalist gang made up of UVF members , a police man and a soldier among others had killed 6 catholics. This gang the Glananne gang killed 250 catholics over a number of years. The IRA was drawn into this and killed a number of Protestants as retaliation ( approximately 90 killed). This would suggest that the Protestant paramilitaries with the active invovement of Police officers and British soldiers were 2 and a half times worse than than the Republicans. However , the attack you mention i believe was carried out by members of INLA and nothing to do with Adams or McGuinness.



Was this not the Real IRA trying to undermine the peace process being pushed by Adams and McGuinness.


Again a terrible tragedy that innocent civillians were killed following a botched attempt to kill members of the an army. However the IRA brigade that carried it out were suspended from active service for the rest of the troubles. The bombing actually helped push the peace procee as Sinn Fein realised that the continuing deaths of civillians was no longer justifiable.


.

I think it is accepted that Gerry Adams set up the unit that dealt with suspected informants and Jean McConvilles death was probably his responsibility



You seem to place all the responsibility as do others on here at the hands of McGuinness and Adams and the Republican movement. We have got to 14 pages and hardly a mention of what Nationalists in Ireland had to experience. The Sectarian killings were started by Loyalists and then retaliated against by Nationalists. The Shankhil butchers are an example of what Catholics had to experience but then again i suppose that is all the fault of the Republicans as well.
I suppose if those pesky nationalists had not demanded civil rights and an end to discrimination then all of this would not have happened. Why could they not just accept second class status instead of antagonising those nice orangemen and their bowler hats who just like a nice stroll in the park.

Same with those uppity s in America if they had not started wanting to be treated equally they would not have upset those nice farmers in the souith who ended up having to waste their bed linen making nice little white halloween suits.

I edited my above post to practice using the Quote buttons i know Cronus seems to think it is really important.

Yeah, but you have to learn to quote specifically to the poster you are replying to. You know, including their user name with each quote. As in the above, but for all the subsequent ones in your post.
That looks a lot more professional.


Happy quoting.

The stench of Sectarianism ? Where would that be ? Have I slagged off Catholics or is the fact the Cathoilc Church were, and are, quite happy to hide IRA criminals and even absolve them through confession something that bothers you ? I'm really sorry to disappoint you but I'm not a Rangers or Hearts fan or even Scots Presbytarian so that blows that out of the water. I don't care in the slightest about the Trotsky quote so why you think it might have touched a nerve with me is a surprise. You are quite sarcastic really aren't you with your last two paragraphs ?

I think you should be very careful using that word to describe African Americans in future.

Im am still practicing. But will take on board your advice.

Quote ="Dead Man Walking"The stench of Sectarianism ? Where would that be ? Have I slagged off Catholics or is the fact the Cathoilc Church were, and are, quite happy to hide IRA criminals and even absolve them through confession something that bothers you ? I'm really sorry to disappoint you but =#FF0000[size=150I'm not a Rangers or Hearts fan or even Scots Presbytarian so that blows that out of the water[/size. I don't care in the slightest about the Trotsky quote so why you think it might have touched a nerve with me is a surprise. You are quite sarcastic really aren't you with your last two paragraphs ?'" My mistake it must have been a different Dead Man Walking who posted this on the Scottish football thread. [size=200Well done Rangers. Hopefully Hearts can try to challenge next season[/size page 115. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=264000&tsmp=1341213134&start=1140

Quote ="Dead Man Walking"The stench of Sectarianism ? Where would that be ? Have I slagged off Catholics or is the fact the Cathoilc Church were, and are, quite happy to hide IRA criminals and even absolve them through confession something that bothers you ? I'm really sorry to disappoint you but =#FF0000[size=150I'm not a Rangers or Hearts fan or even Scots Presbytarian so that blows that out of the water[/size. I don't care in the slightest about the Trotsky quote so why you think it might have touched a nerve with me is a surprise. You are quite sarcastic really aren't you with your last two paragraphs ?'" My mistake it must have been a different Dead Man Walking who posted this on the Scottish football thread. [size=200Well done Rangers. Hopefully Hearts can try to challenge next season[/size page 115. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=264000&tsmp=1341213134&start=1140

Context is evrything and in the context of the last two paragraphs of that post it is very clear what the meaning is. To provoke a response by using heavy irony and just making the point that people who are discriminated against or being oppressed are not responsible for the actions of those who oppress them when they are challenged.

Quote ="Durham Giant"My mistake it must have been a different Dead Man Walking who posted this on the Scottish football thread. [size=200Well done Rangers. Hopefully Hearts can try to challenge next season[/size page 115. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=264000&tsmp=1341213134&start=1140'" Now you are clutching at straws and it really doesn't look good at all. That proves absolutely nothing and for you to trawl through pages and pages of posts is quite worrying.

Quote ="Durham Giant"My mistake it must have been a different Dead Man Walking who posted this on the Scottish football thread. [size=200Well done Rangers. Hopefully Hearts can try to challenge next season[/size page 115. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=264000&tsmp=1341213134&start=1140'" Now you are clutching at straws and it really doesn't look good at all. That proves absolutely nothing and for you to trawl through pages and pages of posts is quite worrying.

Enough. Nice to see you all proving that bigots don't only wear red, white and blue...