Yeah I think everyone agrees that that was a bad position to get into but like I say. That particular taboo is long gone and we are arresting these animals and everyone involved with vulnerable adults is trained to recognise and report this kind of behaviour.

I just don't understand the use in continually using it as a stick to beat the bigger community with. They would tell you these men are not behaving in accordance with their religion. The Manc bomber was banned from his mosque and reported for his views.

Are they?

I've read a lot of your posts and I pretty much agree with all of them, I obviously don't know what you do for a job, but from my experience (and I won't / can't go further than that) I would say we're a long, long way away from that.

As to the further debate, I struggle to see how more integration between the people and cultures of our country would be a bad thing when what we appear to be saying is that the problems leading to horrendous abuse have been caused by a lack of understanding and mistrust of each others cultures and religions.

People are people. We need to find a way to share common ground. The people that are in this country are in this country. Isn't in all our common good to learn about and respect each other?

I would hope that this is an issue on which the right and the left could agree; where we tend not to agree however, is the language and rhetoric that tends to come from the right when this kind of filthy crime comes to light - it very quickly becomes an excuse for the kind of casual, dog whistle racism that fuels hate crime, and makes minority communities feel even more disenfranchised and alienated and by extension, less likely to engage with the police or social services. Practically a party political broadcast for the BNP.

FWIW - I'm a lefty snowflake - but I can agree without fear that a disproportionate amount of Pakistani men have been involved in this kind of case; when you look at the detail however, the evidence suggests that their motive is criminal and has nothing to do with religion; they are pimping these girls out to other criminals. There is also evidence to suggest that many of them had a belief that they would not be prosecuted by the police, because the police would be afraid of accusations of racism - which turned out to be true, and is damning. Thankfully, we seem to be past that now.

It's basically been rolled into safeguarding legislation, which requires all statutory, 3rd sector and voluntary organisations which work with vulnerable individuals to complete training every year and update policies as they are directed by local authorities safeguarding teams.

So any police officer, front line NHS staff, social worker and even such as people who run night shelters n soup kitchens etc are required to undertake safeguarding training.

Most areas I have worked across it's been a single point of access where all safeguarding reports go to and then are distributed to the correct service such as police or social services etc. They also set up specific task groups to deal with issues coming out of serious case reviews and reports etc

Add to that, anyone who works with children in any capacity, and all social care staff, no matter how junior; the SG system is actually quite robust, but it depends on action being taken when reports are made, without fear or favour - which clearly hasn't happened in the past.

Anyone who works in this field recognises that there were times when a failure to acknowledge some of the racial elements was not addressed.

Unfortunately it is the bit that everyone concentrates on.

However what it tends to be forgottten was the very anti working class attitude towards the victims.

They were just working class slags , "what do you expect from council house chavs etc".

There was also a a very negative attitude based on sexism. None of which seems to be developed by those who highlight the organised abuse of young girls in the inner cities.


It is like meat eaters and the hunting fraternity who campaign against halal meat. You need to look at the motivation behind the headlines and the agenda that is being pushed.

Reports of more attacks in London.

Mixed talk of gunfire, stabbings and a van mowing people down around Borough Market, London Bridge and possibly Vauxhall. One chap says he saw armed police firing at someone - fingers crossed there are no civilian fatalities and the only gunfire is armed police giving some bstard his ticket to the 72 virgins.

Time will tell.

Yes, all of which I've already mentioned if you care to read back.

BTW, don't take the BBC drama as gospel. As good as it was, they skirted around the elephant in the room. Yes, the 'white trash' aspect was a factor but don't underestimate the part fear of being labelled racist or anti-Islam played in the failure to take action earlier.

And the reasons people focus on the race aspect is that this is a very specific and widespread issue of (gangs of) Pakistani men preying on underage white girls, and because it was allowed to go unprosecuted for so long in part due to race.Fact is, the race of the victims is a key motivating and indeed titillating factor to the perpetrators. Anyone simply placing it alongside other cases of child abuse is missing or denying the point, which is that there exists a specific cultural problem that shouldn't simply be lumped in with other areas of child abuse.

Good lord, when even a hugely left-wing Muslim commentator at [url=https://inews.co.uk/opinion/columnists/muslim-community-still-denial-rochdale/The Indy[/url is acknowledging the problem, you know there must be a problem. Well worth a read.

I'm sure someone will come along to tell us it's our fault for not being nicer to Muslims.

We shouldn't have shot we should have tried to reason with them until they got tired of stabbing people!!

There will some on here who think this is the fault of the "white ruling class" - these people who did this are nothing but low level scumbags the fact they do it in the name of religion puts that religion in its true light.

Jeremy just wants to keep talking!!

"Nothing to do with Islam"

You really do talk some crap, maybe we should just nuke someone to make you feel better, it would really help.
Where are you sending the first warhead ?

Taking out terrorist's who are trying to maim and kill innocent people, should never be a problem.
Totally agree with your sentiments on "religion" though.

IF this is in the name of ANY god, it's time to find a different path.

As I said the morivation of those who raise this is coming through loud and clear.


I do not rely on BBC dramas for my understanding of this. I was dealing with this sort of stuff on a daily basis 12 years ago. Around organised abuse

Cleveland Police had a campaign to drive prostitutes out of Middlesbrough. They harassed prostitutes and took car number plates of any car driving through certain parts of Middlesbrough which were not registered to a Middlesbrough address. Letters were sent to people's homes stating your car was seen in a red light area please note the police are watching you ( that was a quick summary)

As a result all the prostitutes stopped working in Middlesbrough.

Cue the chief constable on TV saying we have solved prostitution in Middlesbrough.

Except they had not. All the prostitutes had gone to work in Stockton 4 miles away.

Unfortunately the area they chose was near a couple of children's homes and near services for care leavers. The net result was loads of kids in care started prostituting themselves. They were targeted by groups and gangs. Some of it organised some of it ad hoc. I chaired numerous meetings around this.

Guess what 99% of the blokes involved were called peter , john Charlie or ginger. Not one Mohammed or Asif etc.
Yes Islam but more so some of the cultural ideas that go with it is a backward religion but actually all religions are backwards.

One of the big issues is the oversexualisation of society, young men come from veryy repressed backgrounds who feel like they are in a smarty shop and any non Muslim girl is fair game.


What I would like to know from Cronus and Sal is what is their solution.

Because in regard to this it is not just Muslim men who are the problem .

IS there a solution? Maybe Sadiq Khan is right. Maybe it's a case of "oh well, tough t*ts, you live in a big city, deal with it"...

Not really in the context that he used that expression. He said that terror attacks are part and parcel of living in a major city, he wasn't saying its acceptable - just that it's currently a reality.

WTF has this to do with Corbyn?!

It may have escaped your notice - but the terrorist attacks have taken place under a Tory government, with Mrs May as the Home Secretary for 6 years.

It's a disgusting and sickening crime, designed to divide; when people take to social media to condemn all Muslims, they are doing exactly what the terrorists want.

So should we praise Islam - say what a great job they are doing? We don't see Buddhists, Christians or Hindu does this sort of stuff?

Jeremy talking is about his attitude - he has previous with extremists - if he is what you want go vote Labour

God I'm bored of hearing this naive response of the terrorists want to divide. Simply they want to kill and they have done. They'll view yesterday and Manchester as great successes, not failures because people didn't condemn them enough on FB. The way to stop these acts are to toughen up on people with extremist views, not putting on a smile and say let's carry on our normal lives and that'll show them. When another attack happens and god forbid a family member or friend of yours is murdered are you going to still say the next day "oh well let's just carry on as normal".

Yeah, let's "toughen up" and show them how tough we are. That will definitely stop people who literally want to die, kill as many people as possible and be remembered in the worst possible way.

As per usual you just assume someone means let's bomb them/kill them. Being tougher on KNOWN extremists living in Britain doesn't mean murder or bombing.

What do people think this "lets carry on as normal" response is actually going to achieve? You think ISIS might eventually get bored and leave us alone?

Well said and a common sense response but that won't stop the apologist group on here shooting you down.

I'm just continually flabbergasted that some people are always more interested in pointing the finger at politicians and certain sections of the British public for what happened rather than the people who actually commit the crimes. How very British PC to shift the blame onto ourselves.

Are you an actual caricature - or do people really believe this stuff when they say it?

If you believe that terrorism is mindless and doesn't have some propaganda element, then you're dafter than you sound; the whole methodology is even named to help you - TERRORism; it's designed to spread fear and to generate a disproportionate response from the authorities - so that our freedoms and lifestyle are curtailed, so we turn against the people who live among us, and we become suspicious, divided and hateful - all of which is happening. So whilst you might sneer and condescend at ordinary people's response to attacks - I guess unless you're Batman or an armed police officer, it's just about all you can do, yes?

I shan't even respond to a question about a member of my family being killed - that's a new low.

Again you're someone who by the comment of "turning against those who live amongst us" make me or others out to be someone whose after each and every Muslim when that's simply not true, we're on about KNOWN muslims with extremists views. We should be able to be tougher on that section of the Muslim community without being knee jerkingly, stereotypically accused of wanting rid of all Muslims.

And my kind of response isn't out "terror" or "hate", Its out of compassion that I simply don't want to see innocent people killed. For me it's more important that parents don't have to bury their 8 year old daughter, that children don't lose a parent, that husbands don't lose wives etc. That's more important to me than the risk of offending people who will have attracted government/police attention for a reason. That's not a crime but people like yourself choose to paint me as a hate filled vengence seeking racist.

And the comment about if you lost a loved one I find extremely relevant because it's fine for people to say "let's carry on as normal"......to be fair imo that's quite a slap in the face of those that have lost someone who simply won't be able to "carry on as normal". So again, you or anyone else, you put yourself in the position of one of those families currently mourning the lost of a loved one and still hear the words "carry on as normal" and treat them the same.

So you carry on dismissing people as hateful racists just because they don't want to see more children hit with nail bombs.

Other than the emotive rubbish you write

I would be really interested in your definitions of known terrirists particularly as some of those involved in recent attacks were off the radar and not known as extremists.

Some were not but due to a lack of resources we could not keep an eye on them.
Maybe cuts to public services and the police contribute to this.

Is it comeone who travelled to syria and Iraq and Libya after we bombed them back to the Stone Age and left them as havens and training grounds for terrorists ? (9maybe we should stop intervening in these countries !!)

Is it someone who campaigns against western intervention in the Middle East ?


Is it someone who organises medical aid for Palestinians ?


Is it someone who prays 5 times a day and wears a beard ?


After we have identified the known extremists what do we do with them.?

Intern them ? That went well in Northern Ireland .

Assassinate them ?

Deport `them back to their own countries like err Britain ?

Prevention orders. Where there re not the resources to police them? Do it without any judicial oversights to stop them using justice as. Way of escaping the long TM of the law.

Ban them from observing some of their backward beliefs. . Maybe ban the veil it sounds catchy but is unlikely to do much to engender any security..

Maybe we could get them all to wear a big yellow crescent badge ?

Would love to hear your ideas ?

I am not averse to looking at ways of addressing the issues but your knee jerk reactions like UKIPS are catchy pick up in ange'r and frustration but they will only make things worse.

Doing the right thing is more important than doing something.