Another example of our sick society: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... hefts.html

Another example of our sick society: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... hefts.html

I agree.

Constantly linking to Dally Wail articles is a clear indication of just how low some in our society have sunk

Them and The Sun are usually first nationals to put stories on the web. I boycott all things Murdoch, where I am aware of the link. So, not much choice.

ONE example of ONE person that works in a charity shop .

There are thousands of people across the country that work voluntarily in charity shops .

Would you please contribute some more to this thread by giving us examples of the great things that the rest of the charity shop volunteers do ?
Why are items that make the headlines always so negative ? The world would be so much better a place if people could occasionally focus on the positives . A headline such as ' Traumatised ex-soldier gives 16 hours a week to work unpaid in an Oxfam shop' .

Rant over .

I was just citing it as one more example of the moral decline of this nation. I am sure even you have noted many others these last few years.

What evidence do you have for a moral decline? I don't know about you but I see far more acts of kindness and sacrifice day to day than I do that could characterise a "moral decline".

Oh and as the Leveson Inquiry has proved we can't trust newspapers so sensationalist bullshiiit scaremongering Daily Mail articles don't count as evidence.

This one is scraping the dregs out . I know a few lads that came back from places such as Bosnia that are still suffering from what they saw there . People that used to be the life and soul of the party and seemed to be so carefree you would think nothing could unnerve them . Now those same lads have reached their midlife and are haunted by what they saw . They are , and have been since their return , receiving treatment to help them deal with life outside the military . After hearing stories such as one lad pulled a screaming kid out of a smoke-filled building only to find when he got outside into the daylight it was not much more than half a screaming kid I can kinda understand why they are so traumatised by their times spent in such places .
One of the things they have in common is that they are all 'unemployable' due to their conditions . Another is that they all help out in charity shops . It is a step on the way to recovery . The charity shops give a lot back to folk such as these lads , recovering alcoholics , and others that have 'gone astray' . They give them a chance .

It's about time we had some happy news . You got any happy news Dally ?

It's only posh people that are depraved.
The rest of us are merely deprived.

Quote ="Him"What evidence do you have for a moral decline? I don't know about you but I see far more acts of kindness and sacrifice day to day than I do that could characterise a "moral decline". Oh and as the Leveson Inquiry has proved we can't trust newspapers so sensationalist bullshiiit scaremongering Daily Mail articles don't count as evidence.'" You must be young if you think that. In my lifetime the decline has been dramatic and to be honest it is no longer the country I was brought up in on so many levels. For those 30 odd years older than me it must be awful. You ought to read this book: www.amazon.co.uk/Strange-Death-M ... 1412806224 (Which for a lover of 'evidence' like you is based throughout on the British government's own statistics). (Cue the usual suspects dissing the author, just like the Tories used to mock Scargill).

Quote ="Him"What evidence do you have for a moral decline? I don't know about you but I see far more acts of kindness and sacrifice day to day than I do that could characterise a "moral decline". Oh and as the Leveson Inquiry has proved we can't trust newspapers so sensationalist bullshiiit scaremongering Daily Mail articles don't count as evidence.'" You must be young if you think that. In my lifetime the decline has been dramatic and to be honest it is no longer the country I was brought up in on so many levels. For those 30 odd years older than me it must be awful. You ought to read this book: www.amazon.co.uk/Strange-Death-M ... 1412806224 (Which for a lover of 'evidence' like you is based throughout on the British government's own statistics). (Cue the usual suspects dissing the author, just like the Tories used to mock Scargill).

I couldn't possibly comment regarding moral decline . My moral standard is way below what I would be expect everyone elses to be . If morals decline to my standards then I will be a happy man , but I DON'T doubt that there would be a lot of unhappy fathers and husbands out there

edit

Quote ="Dally"You must be young if you think that. In my lifetime the decline has been dramatic and to be honest it is no longer the country I was brought up in on so many levels. For those 30 odd years older than me it must be awful. You ought to read this book: www.amazon.co.uk/Strange-Death-M ... 1412806224 (Which for a lover of 'evidence' like you is based throughout on the British government's own statistics). (Cue the usual suspects dissing the author, just like the Tories used to mock Scargill).'" In what way has it been dramatic? What is dramatically worse than it was 30 years ago when taking into account technological/demographic changes etc Were drastically fewer people being killed? Drastically fewer people abused? Drastically fewer crimes? I have no intention of buying and reading such a book, since you obviously have read it what statistics does it use to account for a moral decline? How is it measured? How have the methods of recording those statistics changed over decades? Does it take into account population and other changes? Again, I will ask for evidence of such a shocking moral decline in this country.

Quote ="Dally"You must be young if you think that. In my lifetime the decline has been dramatic and to be honest it is no longer the country I was brought up in on so many levels. For those 30 odd years older than me it must be awful. You ought to read this book: www.amazon.co.uk/Strange-Death-M ... 1412806224 (Which for a lover of 'evidence' like you is based throughout on the British government's own statistics). (Cue the usual suspects dissing the author, just like the Tories used to mock Scargill).'" In what way has it been dramatic? What is dramatically worse than it was 30 years ago when taking into account technological/demographic changes etc Were drastically fewer people being killed? Drastically fewer people abused? Drastically fewer crimes? I have no intention of buying and reading such a book, since you obviously have read it what statistics does it use to account for a moral decline? How is it measured? How have the methods of recording those statistics changed over decades? Does it take into account population and other changes? Again, I will ask for evidence of such a shocking moral decline in this country.

Quote ="Dally"You must be young if you think that. In my lifetime the decline has been dramatic and to be honest it is no longer the country I was brought up in on so many levels. For those 30 odd years older than me it must be awful. You ought to read this book: www.amazon.co.uk/Strange-Death-M ... 1412806224 (Which for a lover of 'evidence' like you is based throughout on the British government's own statistics). (Cue the usual suspects dissing the author, just like the Tories used to mock Scargill).'" Just how old are you?

Quote ="Dally"You must be young if you think that. In my lifetime the decline has been dramatic and to be honest it is no longer the country I was brought up in on so many levels. For those 30 odd years older than me it must be awful. You ought to read this book: www.amazon.co.uk/Strange-Death-M ... 1412806224 (Which for a lover of 'evidence' like you is based throughout on the British government's own statistics). (Cue the usual suspects dissing the author, just like the Tories used to mock Scargill).'" Just how old are you?

Quote ="Dally"Another example of our sick society: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... hefts.html'" Nope, still getting tea and kittens. Best plug in ever.

Quote ="Dally"Another example of our sick society: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... hefts.html'" Nope, still getting tea and kittens. Best plug in ever.

I was waiting for his 'we're all going to die in the solar storm' thread!

Are you not familiar with Dally's work?

I think i'm a bit of both !

He's younger than me.

Reading the synopsis of the book, I'm not surprised that Dally is attracted to the message. Both he and the author seem to live in this fantasy where 30+ years ago we all lived in harmony, through fear that we'd be outed as shirtlifters, divorcees or non-church goers.

Now my memory may have faded somewhat but I can't recollect a time when there were no child abusers, murderers, thieves and assorted vagabonds. The only reason the odd person wasn't thieving from a charity shop in the 1960s/70s was because there were no charity shops to thieve from.

Not old enough to have invested the time to learn anything at all about the history of Britain.

Spot on.

My parents are as stupid. They have this mad belief that, at some point in the past (I'm convinced it's the 1950s), everything was somehow perfect and that it's all a mess now because of the permissive society.

And yet they know that domestic violence is not new (and not even limited to their own fighting). They know that sexual abuse is not new – as just one example of this, my father, as a clergyman, has found himself dealing with very elderly parishoners whose lives were blighted by abuse that happened before WWII (and see Billy Connolly for another example of this).

My own father admitted to me one day, that he'd lost his virginity when 12 to a 14 year old girl in his Cornish backwater – a village on the edge of Bodmin Moor, with no TV or anything else to spread that permissive filth, in the days shortly after WWII: an admission that reveals how utterly crass his subsequent drive to 'blame' post-1960s life for sex are.

And as I intimated in my previous post, if you know anything about the history of this country, beyond the names and dates of monarchs, you'd know it is utter nonsense to pretend that there was any such halcyon era when nothing impolite ever happened.

18th century, cross-class gangs of young men holding up coaches and then burning them out (car jacking was new?).

Not that long ago, when this sort of subject came up, I posted a raft of links to stuff about gangs across Victorian England.

You could find stuff about looting during the Blitz. You could find things about police no-go areas in cities across the countries (specific examples in London: Borough at the end of the 19th century, Bermondsey in the early 20th century). Read Dickens to see that political corruption existed long ago – look at Hogarth to see the same thing, along with boozy brawling. And on the subject of that boozy brawling, read Virginia Woolf to see that women getting wrecked and then fighting in the street is hardly new either – she wrote of such a thing in a book first published in 1921.

But Dally and his ilk don't care for facts. They'd far rather have the pleasure they seem to derive from their Chicken Licken approach to everything.

When I was 16 years old in 1972 the brother of one of my class mates kicked to death a railway porter outside a pub in Leeds because the railway porter was rumoured to be gay, or at least he was one of a group of six men from the pub who dragged the porter outside and kicked him to death because he was rumoured to be gay - they all got several years for manslaughter.

When I was 13 years old in 1969 some Leeds City Police officers chased a black African vagrant out of the city centre because he was black and they didn't want him there, he was found dead in the river Aire some days later, it was the first recorded incident of institutional racism from a police force and two officers served time for assault over a long period of time against David Oluwale.

I don't think things have got dramatically worse since then.

Dally would have given the first group medals – and probably the second group too.

Quote ="Dally"You must be young if you think that. In my lifetime the decline has been dramatic and to be honest it is no longer the country I was brought up in on so many levels. For those 30 odd years older than me it must be awful. You ought to read this book: www.amazon.co.uk/Strange-Death-M ... 1412806224 (Which for a lover of 'evidence' like you is based throughout on the British government's own statistics). (Cue the usual suspects dissing the author, just like the Tories used to mock Scargill).'" Why would anyone want to diss this particular author. He's clearly got a political agenda as have all author's on this subject. FWIW people have been writing this sort of trash throughout history, with each generation desperately trying to prove a moral decline from previous 'golden eras.' It's as much b*llocks now as it was when Thucydides bewailed the moral degeneration of Greek society during the Peloponnesian War. The term 'moral decadence' itself dates back to the middle ages and crops up every decade in right-wing treatises and journals, usually as a justification for further restrictions on civil liberties. As for age - I really don't know what on earth you think that's got to do with it. Personal experience will always be both limited (even over a full human lifespan) and subjective. It is as relevant to this argument as personally visiting the moon is relevant to knowing it has craters.

Quote ="Dally"You must be young if you think that. In my lifetime the decline has been dramatic and to be honest it is no longer the country I was brought up in on so many levels. For those 30 odd years older than me it must be awful. You ought to read this book: www.amazon.co.uk/Strange-Death-M ... 1412806224 (Which for a lover of 'evidence' like you is based throughout on the British government's own statistics). (Cue the usual suspects dissing the author, just like the Tories used to mock Scargill).'" Why would anyone want to diss this particular author. He's clearly got a political agenda as have all author's on this subject. FWIW people have been writing this sort of trash throughout history, with each generation desperately trying to prove a moral decline from previous 'golden eras.' It's as much b*llocks now as it was when Thucydides bewailed the moral degeneration of Greek society during the Peloponnesian War. The term 'moral decadence' itself dates back to the middle ages and crops up every decade in right-wing treatises and journals, usually as a justification for further restrictions on civil liberties. As for age - I really don't know what on earth you think that's got to do with it. Personal experience will always be both limited (even over a full human lifespan) and subjective. It is as relevant to this argument as personally visiting the moon is relevant to knowing it has craters.

I think the solar storm thing is likely to be over-hyped. Mind you, if National Grid have got their calculations wrong......

The decline really set in post WW2.

The facts of crime, reported crime, types of crime, etc, etc do bear out my views.

Is it a disappointment to wake and find you're still alive?