www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... pital.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... pital.html

On the basis that this was/is a "failing hospital" and we're continually told how wonderful the private sector is, I look forward to a rapid improvement, polite, understanding staff (just for Dally), no waiting lists, all the best doctors working there and a low mortality rate.

Should I hold my breath?

I doubt a sperm whale could hold its breath long enough.

Listened to the Circle spokesman on radio today, talk about evasive.

Circle is a loss making company. Perhaps with some government subsidy it can break even?

Why be negative about it before it's happened? The NHS is an organisation wrought with inefficiency and is genuinely failing a lot of people. It provides a decent level of care for most, which when you consider most who use it don't contribute anything like what it cost to treat them we can't really complain.

One assumes a private run hospital would still be subject to the same standard checks and SLAs normal hospitals are bound to.

If we actually want to improve medical care in this country, investment is the only way to do it. Given the perilous state of public finances across the globe, it's hard to see where that is going to come from if not private investment. Personally I'd advocate a two tier system. A basic level of care for people who don't contribute financially to their care and a second tier health insurance style scheme with proper investment in cutting edge care.

I'm a diabetic and no doubt a massive burden on the NHS. I wouldn't have any objection to contributing more.

Beat me to it.

I'm opposed to any two-tier scheme.
My moral and political stance is that ALL are entitled to the same level of care.
Being richer should not mean being able to purchase better healthcare.
By all means allow richer people to buy extra comforts like a private room or whatever but not better healthcare.
Even at the moment, the same specialists spend more time per private patient than they do per NHS patient ... and that, to my mind, is morally wrong.
If healthcare can be improved, then improve it for all.

Without clear numbers, I can't accept that the NHS is any less cost-effective than the same healthcare provision plus insurance bureaucracy plus private insurance company profit ... add to that the restrictions that insurance companies will ( and do already) place on who they will insure and how many times they can be treated in a year and the way they avoid chronic conditions and avoid existing conditions ... etc etc.

The NHS is brilliant [uprecisely because[/u it is run for the public good and not run by an insurance company.

But is the NHS brilliant? Do the stats back that up? Is the NHS better than other administrations in other countries statistically?

After reading about this case I read one link that states total expenditure on health per person in the UK was $2,815 in 2006 and in the US it was $6,719. That can't be good?

How exactly would that be fair on you? You may think you are a burden but isn't that what the NHS is there for? Fair enough if you may be in a position where you can afford to pay extra but why should someone who has some form of medical condition which they didn't ask for yet have to live with.. have to contribute more because they are unfortunate enough to have an illness? Isn't the whole point of the NHS to give everyone an equal chance of getting healthcare without having to worry about costs?

After the last few years I'd hate to think about how much it has cost the NHS to look after me. At one point being on monthly infusions that cost £1400 a go... Obviously I've looked at private health care but they wouldn't go near me. and I don't blame them



A big problem with the NHS is the massive difference in standards between hospitals. Whether that is down to the way the funding is divided or just that some hospitals are lucky enough to get outside funding from elsewhere I don't know. In my experience this year I had emergency surgery in one hospital which went wrong and nearly killed me... I was eventually sent 15 miles down the road to another NHS hospital which had so much better doctors and facilities available and it was shocking. I couldn't understand how one hospital on the NHS could be a complete dump with very few doctors who knew what to do...yet this second hospital I was in had the very best docs/surgeons in the country and such better facilities.

Privatising Hospitals wouldn't necessarily mean a better standard of care, having never been in a private hospital I cant comment too much other than think about experiences I have heard from other people, But whilst in hospital I spoke to quite a lot of patients who had been let down badly by private health care just the same as people had by the NHS.

If more people go private then the private sector will only end up having the same issues that the NHS now has, with long waiting lists and mortality rates.

Depends on how you define brilliant. In some aspects it clearly is, in others, perhaps not so.

It was you who said it is wrought with inefficiency, now you're asking me prove it isn't?
Comparing the amounts spent per head in UK and US tells us ab-sol-ute-ly nothing about efficiency, quality or equitable distribution of healthcare.
We would need to know how much was profit, how much was administration cost for the extra layer of invoicing / charging etc, how much the staff were paid, how much was fancy offices etc etc.

No it is not good and is one reason why the US has got a whopping budget deficit and has lost its AAA credit rating. The US needs serious reform of its expensive and inefficient healthcare system.

Quote ="El Barbudo"It was you who said it is wrought with inefficiency, now you're asking me prove it isn't? Comparing the amounts spent per head in UK and US tells us ab-sol-ute-ly nothing about efficiency, quality or equitable distribution of healthcare. We would need to know how much was profit, how much was administration cost for the extra layer of invoicing / charging etc, how much the staff were paid, how much was fancy offices etc etc.'" Good article here from a US perspective about healthcare reform: www.economist.com/blogs/democrac ... lth-reform Interesting to see the conclusion: Quote Which is why it wouldn't be at all surprising if a board of 15 experts could play a major role in reducing expenses and improving care outcomes in the American medical industry. That's what corresponding boards of experts in France, Germany, Britain, Canada, the Netherlands and so on do, which is why their health-care systems cost half what ours does, cover everyone in their countries, and generally provide better care.'"

Quote ="El Barbudo"It was you who said it is wrought with inefficiency, now you're asking me prove it isn't? Comparing the amounts spent per head in UK and US tells us ab-sol-ute-ly nothing about efficiency, quality or equitable distribution of healthcare. We would need to know how much was profit, how much was administration cost for the extra layer of invoicing / charging etc, how much the staff were paid, how much was fancy offices etc etc.'" Good article here from a US perspective about healthcare reform: www.economist.com/blogs/democrac ... lth-reform Interesting to see the conclusion: Quote Which is why it wouldn't be at all surprising if a board of 15 experts could play a major role in reducing expenses and improving care outcomes in the American medical industry. That's what corresponding boards of experts in France, Germany, Britain, Canada, the Netherlands and so on do, which is why their health-care systems cost half what ours does, cover everyone in their countries, and generally provide better care.'"

I'm also more than a little concerned about some Clinical Commissioning Groups (CCGs) apparently rationing the numbers of referrals a GP can make to hospitals. Some GP practises are being asked to "justify" their referrals.

[url=http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/newsarticle-content/-/article_display_list/12963686/ccgs-cherry-picking-low-spending-practicesLINK[/url

If I invent a cure for the common cold, that prevents it ever recurring in a patient, but it costs a billion pounds per treatment, should it be available on the NHS for all?
If not, should those who can afford it be allowed to buy it from me?
It hardly seems ethical to ban it's use from those prepared to pay.

An interesting blog by an East London GP: [url=http://abetternhs.wordpress.com/about/A Better NHS[/url

I've never ever had a problem with the NHS when I have needed them and for the NHS to be privatised would be a disgrace.

Quote ="Saddened!"But is the NHS brilliant?'" Yes Quote ="Saddened!" Do the stats back that up?'" yes Quote ="Saddened!" Is the NHS better than other administrations in other countries statistically?'" yes Quote ="Saddened!"After reading about this case I read one link that states total expenditure on health per person in the UK was $2,815 in 2006 and in the US it was $6,719. That can't be good?'" Because most of the US spending goes on transaction costs and to insurance companies. NHS costs less but gets better outcomes. Here's some links for you www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... world.html www.gponline.com/News/article/11 ... rvey-says/ www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/ ... on-lansley and one from November last year www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/ ... healthcare

Quote ="Saddened!"But is the NHS brilliant?'" Yes Quote ="Saddened!" Do the stats back that up?'" yes Quote ="Saddened!" Is the NHS better than other administrations in other countries statistically?'" yes Quote ="Saddened!"After reading about this case I read one link that states total expenditure on health per person in the UK was $2,815 in 2006 and in the US it was $6,719. That can't be good?'" Because most of the US spending goes on transaction costs and to insurance companies. NHS costs less but gets better outcomes. Here's some links for you www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... world.html www.gponline.com/News/article/11 ... rvey-says/ www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/ ... on-lansley and one from November last year www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/ ... healthcare

The way I read it (and pretty much my take on healthcare provision too), is if you can afford to pay for full private treatment, then that's fine. Just don't expect the NHS to pick up the slack, when the private providers can't or won't provide the necessary treatment

Oh, and another interesting link falseeconomy.org.uk/blog/circle- ... a-hospital Quote Circle has been unable to make a profit. How will it turn around a hospital?'"

Oh, and another interesting link falseeconomy.org.uk/blog/circle- ... a-hospital Quote Circle has been unable to make a profit. How will it turn around a hospital?'"

Quote ="tb"Oh, and another interesting link falseeconomy.org.uk/blog/circle- ... a-hospital '" Come on. The CEO is a banker, he's expecting the company run up big debts, pay himself a fortune and then get the state to bail him out and pay his full pension.

Quote ="tb"Oh, and another interesting link falseeconomy.org.uk/blog/circle- ... a-hospital '" Come on. The CEO is a banker, he's expecting the company run up big debts, pay himself a fortune and then get the state to bail him out and pay his full pension.

Ooh … and another sturdyblog.wordpress.com/2011/11 ... -business/

Ooh … and another sturdyblog.wordpress.com/2011/11 ... -business/

What's the betting that this private company gets more money to run the same service? Then they can point to the stats and say oooh look how wonderful the private sector is. You know, like they're doing with the new private schools. I believe they're called free schools or some such other bullsheet.

They are "free" - free to continue pis[is[/iing up the back of the UK taxpayer

Quote ="tb"Ooh … and another sturdyblog.wordpress.com/2011/11 ... -business/'" That just about sums them up. I hate this bunch of overprivileged wastrels with a vengeance, possibly even more than I hate Thatcher. At least with that hard-faced old bitch, you knew what you were getting. This lot seem to think that so long as they mix a bit of honey with the KY Jelly, you'll never notice they've raped you. The sad thing is, too many people still haven't realised that yet

Quote ="tb"Ooh … and another sturdyblog.wordpress.com/2011/11 ... -business/'" That just about sums them up. I hate this bunch of overprivileged wastrels with a vengeance, possibly even more than I hate Thatcher. At least with that hard-faced old bitch, you knew what you were getting. This lot seem to think that so long as they mix a bit of honey with the KY Jelly, you'll never notice they've raped you. The sad thing is, too many people still haven't realised that yet