Not mistaken Westridingeagle's post says it all

Fair enough - that's your interpretation.

But it's not mine.

So if there are to be 12 teams in superleague in 2015 the first chance for promotion will be 2016 - will the two coming down get parachute money? and the one coming down in 2017 - doesn't give much of a chance does it!

Depends what you mean by first chance ..... I'd say you win promotion in 2015 and take your place in $uperleague for 2016.

Are we in a hurry to get into $uperleague ?

Are we ready ?

Reading League Express today i read Martyn Sadler's "talking Rugby league" column and found this bit interesting

"Even though I strongly dislike the two-twelves, three eights model put forward by the RFL, I could imagine the clubs agreeing to it if they got what they wanted commercially.
If they can't reach agreement, then the likelihood is that they will stick with 14 clubs in super league in 2015.
The RFL is holding a gun to the heads of the super league clubs , however, by insisting that two clubs will be relegated from the super league this year come what may.
We have a system in place whereby the RFL Board of directors is able to determine policy on promotion and relegation, while the number of clubs in super league can only change with the agreement of the clubs themselves.
So if the clubs insist on remainig on 14 clubs, two of them will still get the chop, and two clubs from the championship will replace them."

A bit of food for thought there

Wonder how we're voting next week ?

Wasn't we going to vote the 2x12 into 3x8 as it seemed a formality last time?

Tubbs was against it so I assume not.

Either way, I wouldn't vote for something just because it was thought to be a formality.

I guess it's just a choice between leagues of 12 with promotion and relegation or the 2x12 into 3x8's

take your pick

My Guess is that if the RFL makes some allowances to the big teams re Salary Cap etc the RFL's preferred option of 3x8's will go ahead.

From a Sheffield Eagle point of view I hope they clarify the minimum stadium facilities required to play in the Super League I fear that Owlerton with No seats (unless you pay an extra £10 for limited seating behind glass) will fall short of whats required if that is the case i hope they go for 3x8's as it will be more interesting and could generate more revenue with potentially more away fans if we get in the top 4. However if we could play superleague at Owlerton I hope the RFL go with 1 up an 1 down as that is the most likely chance of promotion

Just seen this the winners of the Championship will win £650,000 this coming season not sure if it is regular season or grand final winner

As Super League prepares to vote on how best to reintroduce promotion and relegation, what does it mean for Championship clubs? Dave Craven looks at the implications and possibilities.

IT remains more like an episode of Countdown. The equation is 2 x 12 divided into 3 x 8 after 23 plus seven.

Unfortunately, there is no delectable Rachel Riley to explain it all and make the eventual solution sound so simple. Instead, this is the Super League format conundrum.

In essence, though, it is not really so vexing after all.

There has been much brouhaha and debate, most markedly when six Super League clubs walked out of an extraordinary general meeting in October arranged to sanction it, but in all likelihood it will finally be confirmed next Friday regardless.

For 2015, boiled down we are talking about two divisions of 12 – Super League and Championship – that split into three divisions of eight at the end of the regular season of 23 rounds.

For example, the bottom four of the elite will combine with the Championship’s top quartet.

Seven play-off games will then decide who finishes where in each of those mini-divisions.

In that middle tier, the resultant top four will then play in Super League in 2016 with the remaining starting in the Championship. Simple?

The RFL has always liked its “innovation” and this certainly is different. The big question is – barring another bout of civil war breaking out next week – will it actually work?

Will there be more competitive games, bigger gates and greater interest in the sport? 
Moreover, will Championship clubs actually have a realistic chance of earning that elevation that had eluded them for three years at a time during the licensing experiment?

The majority of Super League are ready to accept the proposals. Wigan Warriors, Warrington Wolves, Hull FC, Hull KR and Huddersfield Giants are keeping their cards close to their chest but that may be irrelevant as they could be outvoted regardless.

In theory, the 3x8s system has the potential to really liven up a competition that has grown staid.

It has been clear for sometime there is not enough quality – or finance – to sustain a 14-club Super League and there will be arguments from some clubs that 12 is too many also.

With the threat of relegation added, the lower echelons of the top division playing against the Championship’s best could create some fascinating contests compared to the meaningless end-of-season fixtures too often witnessed in recent years.

Taking last season’s bottom four, for instance, Wakefield Trinity and Castleford Tigers would both meet Championship high-fliers Featherstone Rovers which would instantly bring three highly-anticipated and, no doubt, competitive derbies.

Furthermore, Castleford chief executive Steve Gill has said before that games against Featherstone and other West Yorkshire second-tier sides such as Halifax or even Batley Bulldogs would easily generate bigger attendances and more income for his club than fixtures with, say, London Broncos and Salford.

But could the likes of Featherstone, Sheffield Eagles – who have won the Championship title in each of the last two seasons – and Halifax really achieve promotion?

In 2015 there would be two relegated Super League teams, with all the added resources that brings at their disposal, added into the equation fighting for the top four Championship slots.

The current second-tier contenders would have plenty to navigate. Sheffield chief executive Mark Aston argues it will be difficult for any Championship club – especially given they are predominantly part-time – to realistically achieve promotion in that manner though Featherstone and Halifax remain confident they can.

There is the age-old problem of having few top-flight players to recruit given the late timing of discovering which division they will actually be in. Boom and bust memories spring to mind?

But Featherstone, who have finished top every year since 2010, will have six full-time players by the end of this season and aim to double that in 2015 ready to solve that issue and have a real tilt.

Allied to their policy of bringing young players through their own pathway, as they gain experience playing against Super League opponents in the end-of-season play-offs, they visualise being able to compete consistently.

Of course, Championship clubs will also receive a greater slice of the financial pie as part of this proposal – something which clearly left some Super League clubs disgruntled – and that will help.

Featherstone received £25,000 for finishing first last season; whoever wins the Championship in 2014 is reported to be in line for a £650,000 windfall.

Admittedly, there will certainly be teething problems ahead and there are many other issues from the RFL’s Policy Review which need further discussion.

However, as a way of reintroducing promotion and relegation while, at the same time, breathing new life into Super League, it remains arguably the best option. The famous Countdown clock is ticking, though.

Do you think promotion with a crowd base of around 1000 will be a Good Thing ?

Griff,

I guess the argument is without the hope of P&R that the 1000 will be 900 the 800 in future years. Hopefully with P&R back in place and a relatively successful team the Eagles could see attendances going in the other direction.

I understand that Sheffield is a Football city, but it still supports an Ice Hockey team with attendances of 3000-3500 in a similar minor sport (like Rugby League) and I don't see why the Eagles couldn't expect to get to this sort of level of support.

For me I'd prefer to see 2 leagues of 12 with 1 up 1 down, can you imagine the draw to the GF if the winners had the chance to get promoted to SL? Though I still believe that the promoted team should be the one top of the pile at the end of the regular season (but can see why we might use the GF winner especially if we end up with an "uneven" set of league fixture which I am guessing is most likely with a 2x12 league structure), though maybe a 1 up 1 down with a play-off system for a second promotion place could work.

As for 2x12 into 3x8 the more I think about it the more I don't like it, issues I see:
- how do you promote season tickets when you don't know if you have 14 or 15 home games
- how do you decide who has 14 and who has 15 home games?
- how as supporters do you manage the fact that going into round 23 of the fixtures for the season you don't know who you are playing (or where) in round 24 (not good for workers on shift patterns
- For clubs that don't own their own grounds how do you book the dates/venues for the last 7 fixtures? Can you imagine the administration headache in the week between round 23 & 24?
- based on the experience in Switzerland the TV companies are only interested in the top league (how do you get TV producers and TV viewers interested in a Sheffield v Fev game on a Saturday night at Owlerton stadium?
- funding across 24 teams is a big problem unless there is a significant increase of sponsorship, whereas with 2x12 with 1 up 1 down you maybe only have to think about the top 14-16 clubs (this for me is the biggest issue)
- what does the middle tier do for play-offs when after the extra 7 games promotion and relegation is already sorted? I still prefer the idea of 8 games for the middle tier and taking the six results through from games against other teams also going into the middle tier, see [u[urlhere[/url[/u)
Am sure Griff can supply more issues here.

Whatever happens we need a structure in place that works for all clubs, but still allows us to have an elite division that can draw in sponsorship. That is it has to be good for the whole game.

Also in all of this don't forget the clubs that will fall outside the top 24 clubs, i.e. the current 9 CC1 clubs plus 6 or 7 from CC (depends if a second French team is introduced into the top 24). The restructure has to work for them also there has to be a way for London Scholars and the like to make their way up the leagues and into SL.
- For me a league of 15/16 teams will not work, so as part of the restructure do we bring in 1 or 2 additional teams at this level and have two leagues of 8?
- Should we go for regional leagues at this level?
- How will funding find its way down to this level?
- How will P&R work between the second tier and these leagues?
- etc.

As much as I’d like to see everything resolved next Friday I just don’t see how all the questions will be answered.

Yes !!!

The club will generate more income through increased TV money and higher away support and with matches being shown on sky the good people of Sheffield might realise that we have actually got a Rugby League Team !!! whether we would go full time is another question depending on prize money and funding Obviously if we dont go full time we will have a difficult task on our hands hopefully there will be funding in place to insure that promoted teams can be competitive in the superleague. Relegated teams will probably have an inflated salary bill so perhaps the RFL could introduce parachute payments like relegated premiership football teams

Even though we are succesful at Championship level and it is great fun winning Grand Finals I am sure i am not the only fan who has dreams of us playing in the Super League at some point without Promotion there are no dreams and all our best players and staff will move to Superleague sides

A very perceptive post and one to which I don't have sufficient time to do justice.

I'd just add from the Twelves and Eights point of view ....

- What are we actually playing for ? Who wins $L2 ? Top of the Twelve or top of the Eight ? What are the third Eight playing for ? There's a Grand Final - for what ?

- I just see this as a mindless succession of groups with no outcome or climax. You're in a group of twelve, qualifying for a group of eight, then qualifying for a group of twelve, then eight .... it's endless. The GF in the middle eight is between fourth and fifth. There's no Big Day Out for the leaders.

I don't like it at all.

We've been in $uperleague and all that didn't happen. In fact, it was so bad, we moved to Huddersfield. Why will it be different next time ?

The merger with Huddersfield happened before i started watching Rugby League i have read what it says on wiki it sounds like we struggling for crowds (Surprise Surprise) and merged because the RFL offered us 1 million pounds.

Will it be different next time who knows ? It will certainly be difficult but Griff are you saying that if we won promotion to the Superleague we should decline the opportunity ?

I'd love us to dine at the top table again i've got some great memories, we've always struggled for crowds but we did get a fair few after we won the challenge cup 8k v wigan around 7k v leeds and 6k v halifax just after. Problem was we lost those games (we had a big injury list if I remember right) and the extra interest was lost. Simply just being in Superleague I remember a fair amount of local media interest in the club and a general interest around the city Sheffielders knew who we was and what we did alot more sheffielders were willing to go to a game

Sheffield's average gates in Superleague

1996: 4704
1997: 4253
1998: 4462
1999: 3540 I put the 1999 season's drop in attendances down to Tim Adams summer long "we're looking to relocate the club" utter drivel that went down like a lead balloon

But i suppose non of it matters as promotion and relegation WILL be returning in one form or another in 2015

Without hope of being able to play against the best what is the point?

I live in hope of seening Fev play at the top level, though it has to be done in a sustainable way, not in a way that will see my club go bust on the back of of over streaching.

You need around £5m of turnover to be in $uperleague. That would certainly have to come from someone else's pocket, not mine.

Then licensing is the route for you.

People overplay this minimum standards business. Every league down to the lowest level has standards of some sort.

To get 5 million turnover you will need average crowds of around 8,000 according to my basic maths (1.5M from RFL 1M from Sponsors Adverts Merchandise 2.5M Gate Receipts) looking at crowd averages from last year 12/14 clubs have an average attendance of 6000 of more. I think any promoted club would struggle to get even close to that average so any promoted club would have to stay part time with a few full time players so they will struggle and there could be a few thrashings and probable relegation. It is getting this way in Football as well I support another team with the nickname Eagles Crystal Palace we got promoted to the premier league with one of the weakest squads ever seen at the top level we are currently bottom but are reasonably competitive we have only be beaten by 3 goals or more twice

Club... SL:2013... (SL:2012)
Leeds... 15197... (1494icon_cool.gif
Wigan... 14545... (16043)
Hull... 11680... (11885)
St Helens... 11345... (14087)
Warrington... 10633... (11452)
Bradford... 8563... (11761)
Catalan... 8363... (9385)
Wakefield... 7972... (8172)
Hull KR... 7495... (7786)
Huddersfield... 6368... (7709)
Castleford... 6306... (6633)
Widnes... 6015... (5977)
Salford... 3125... (5503)
London... 2213... (280icon_cool.gif

Average... 8570... (9564)

Not sure whether you're saying that you want or don't want promotion based on those figures, duggs.

How do you think a "few thrashings and probable relegation" will affect crowds ?

Good point

But on the other hand how could a promotion campaign and the excitement of starting a Superleague campaign effect crowds?

On previous experience, not a lot. Or at least - not a lot in terms of home support.