Since nobody at the Wrexham Crusaders wants anything to do with the club that actually WON its franchise place, can we get the badge of the original team off this page?

I still have a REAL Crusaders top I want to wear and would rather not be affiliated to this team that masquerades as us when it wants and then damns us when it is expedient.

Good luck with your first year of our franchise and all, but we want our badge back.

I think you need an operation to have that big chip removed from your shoulder

More cheese with your whine?

Steal any good teams lately?

You don't WANT any part of the REAL history of the REAL club it seems, so give us our badge back.
Nice to see you so smug and gloaty at stealing our fanchise. I can't wait for the end of next year's season when the RFL doesn't renew our franchise that you are currently using.

You should be moaning to Leighton Samuel and his broken promises! Hardly stolen if he wanted to cash in on it because he couldn't take them any further.

btw plenty of original "true" Crusaders fan here in Wrexham tonight, we aren't selfish up here in North Wales plenty of room for all of Wales to get behind the team.

Oh believe me, Samuel is no friend of mine.

But it ABSOLUTELY IS theft.

Moss bought the club, wound up the company, formed a new companty called Wrexham Crusaders and changed everything except 10 players one word in the team name and mike effing Turner.

Many people buy into clubs. To do what Moss did, whilst legal, is tantamount to theft.

btw I bet I could name EVERY supporter of the original Crusaders that went to Wrexham. 20 people is hardly plenty. But it seems the theft is currently working. That was a good attendance. Even though I despise the vandalism done to my club and loathe the THIEF Moss, I would not suggest you newbies are anything other than "true" fans. We all have to start somewhere. Unfortunately as a result of the filthy deal done by Samuel and Moss, SOME of us have to end somewhere too.

Good luck supporting the new club that is using our franchise and to the 20 who have transferred from Celtic Crusaders to the new club, but isnce it has no respect for the old club or its history, I'd still like OUR club badge off YOUR club site.

Grendel, I thought you had denounced all links with the club, so why are you still talking about them?

Geoff Moss in fact saved the franchise, and the club, rather than doing a Samuel and not paying anyone and running the club into the ground. The fact you would rather us have no club than a club 3 hours away says a lot.

By the way, Friday night was a fantastic occasion. The players really appreciated us travelling from South Wales, even those who joined those damned 'ANZACS' (or whatever you insist on calling them on the South Wales site) after their reincarnation in Wrexham.

Onwards and upwards. We're going to the playoffs this year, with or without you.

Onwards and upwards . Next stop Cumbria eh ? Groundsharing with Whitehaven next season ?
3 seasons after that you gonna be travelling by boat to 'home' matches .
Grendel has a good point . Imagine Wigan moving to a ground in Hull (similar distance ? ) . Change everything about the club except ten or so of the squad . How many Wigan fans would be happy with that ?

I'm guessing not many .

AJH I'm still talking about them because I WANT to.
Is that okay with you? It's my legal right isn't it? Free speech? Nice to see you still spinning the bollards about Geoff Moss though. I don't know if it's because you actually DON'T know the truth or you say what you do because it's expedient. Given what you are training as, I have my suspicions.

You're going to the playoffs this year eh? You'll enjoy that.... You can sit with the team to watch it.

Oh and AJH, I think you've got something on the end of your nose ...

Oh it's okay, it's only geoff Moss' shiit!

I find it hard to understand how you can turn on the team, this was LS's fault, again.

If you no longer want to support the Crusaders carry on but why spout so much crap? If you did love them for five years, supposedly said by you, i find it unbelievable that you have not only turned your back on them but wish them to fail?

If you can't afford to travel, that would be understandable and you could wish them the best but the instant dislike that you have shown makes me wonder, did you really support this team?

If all else fails, revert to personal insults eh?

As for the whole free speech thing, I just find it ironic and slightly hypocritical that you were always one of the first to tell Widnes/Leigh/whoever else's fans to scoot off of our board if they were winding you up, but now you're hear doing the same.

Your 'truths' probably differ very much from the actual truth, as do most people's. None of us will know the real truth, but I suppose knowing a few people at BFL and around Bridgend means you're privy to information nobody else is.

I suppose all will revealed in this 'explicit' money-spinner 'Sir' Gerald McCarthy and Kevin Ellis are releasing.

I appreciate that you are upset, but I think you really need to get a grip. The club had literally no option but to move North, because of Samuels appalling management the club would have gone bust. Would you have preferred that, considering that it would probably have been the end of RL in Wales? As it is, there is now a clear path for junior players, a sound base to build from in Wrexham and a new club in South Wales. I can understand if you do not wish to follow the Crusaders any more, but your continued bitterness and hatred is quire bizarre now considering the facts are available for all to see. Presumably you will be supporting the Scorpions?

Just thought id give it a try.

Good effort.

I particularly like the way the stadium in the background shows the crowd for the upcoming Crusaders v Catalans home match.

You aren't Doris Stokes by any chance are you?

Pity the RFL didn't see this

YOU made this personal AJH. YOU libelled me on another thread on another page.

I am happy to take brickbats for things I said or did. And I have done, many times. But YOU outright lied about me. And CONTINUE to do so. I have never told ANYBODY to leave "our" board as was. I like it when the trolls stay. It's fun to argue. If you have any literary knowledge or even like cartoons you will know Grendel is the troll who was killed by Beowulf. It was not a coincidence I chose the name.

You assume my privileged info came from BFL. Like so many of your assumptions, you are wrong. I am not one of the BF faithful, though I am friendly with some. I am also friendly with many of the BF is rubbish let's move to Newport lads too (though fewer of them now it seems). Hard as it may be for you to concieve, I also have OTHER friends involved in RL and some of these know things. I take it you will slander them shortly.

BOY! Turning on Gerald AND Kevin. What a "loyal" supporter you are. Kev's only JUST left the WCs. In your role as the Scorp supporters club teaboy you're gonna feel a right tit when Kevin Ellis takes a coaching role at the Scorps eh? Will you tell Kevin he's a cash chaser? No? Thought not!

Put it this way LITTLE boy, you make personal insults, you get them back. See you at the Gnoll

That is one version of the "facts". Put out by Mike Turner. The same Mike Turner who made endless statements of the "facts" last year that didn't exactly reflect reality.av Have a word with Dai Watkins about "The" Crusaders' honesty. You know who he is yes?



I suppose to those who, against all evidence, trust what the club says it would seem bizarre yes.

Though I am going to the Scorpions, I don't see why you would presume so: I am done with the Wrexham Crusaders ergo I would go and see their feeder club. Nah not a logical conclusion mate.

Those 'facts' have nothing to do with Mike Turner. The fact is that Leighton Samuel was one step above a con man and did not have the money to support the club - players were regularly not paid on time last year, and the RFL had crisis teams in Bridgend for most of the year. Then, when the full extent of Samuel's financial state was discovered, he conveniently went 'on holiday' to Dubai and could not be contacted for weeks. I do not know why this was not picked up by the RFL at the time of the license decision, but it obviously wasn't. Moss was the only potential buyer, and the club would no longer exist if he hadn't stepped in since there was no source of money in South Wales. Do you think that the club just decided to move hundreds of miles away from all their fans and infrastructure, or that the RFL would allow this and think it was a logical option? Particularly as they had already announced a move to Newport? I appreciate that you may not like or trust Mike Turner, but that's no reason to assume that everything he says is 100% the opposite of the truth, as you seem to have done here.

And I know full well who Dai Watkins is, my father was at Featherstone for his first ever game of Rugby League. I don't know what he has said about the Crusaders and frankly I'm not bothered as it doesn't change the truth.
What evidence do you have to the contrary then?
I just thought as a RL fan you might want to, I'm glad you are. I hope the Scorpions can become serious rivals to the Crusaders one day and then you will have a genuine reason to dislike them

Should both be in the same division by 2012

And we arent talking Superleague here

Much as Mr Samuels ultimately let the club down , he did so quite simply because his personal circumstances changed , he did finance the club through 3 years of lower level , non glamorous leagues , for that he should be thanked , as all who make that decision to put their hard earned into our sport should be

As for the RFL , and the licence fiasco , they were just that far down the line of promises and allowing the visa issue they had no choice other than to look totally inept

I guess you're right and I was harsh but the fact remains that he shouldn't have acted so unprofessionally over the last year.

Totally agree headhunter.

The fact he wriggled and was very cloak and dagger with the RFL made them think we had the money to give Super League a proper go down here. Put simply I don't think he did or the financial climate soon meant he couldn't give it the go he had originally set out to.

I am grateful he gave us Crusaders and enjoyed the rise through the leagues but can't help thinking virtually every aspect of our Super League effort last year could have been done a lot better.

About three quarters through last season I said to quite a few friends that if we moved or our licence was taken away I would not have minded so much if we had a real go at it and failed. The sad fact of the matter is we tried to approach Super League and do things off the field like an amateur rugby union club. We couldn't have hoped to survive going about things like that.

Which tells us what ? , that basically you were not ready , which was plain to see , especially to those of us who had been through it all with Leigh 4 years ago , I knew we werent ready then and it wasn't difficult to see that Celtic also were not ready

This is why I criticise the sports management as I do , they ignore things at all levels

I thought we were ready and I also thought Samuel had the money, which is what it comes down to if we're honest, to get in the players, spend close to the cap and do things well with regards to marketing and merchandise.

How wrong I was, even in these basic areas.