Hedgehog King. you seem to be in the know. does this mean that no other clubs have ever been helped out by the RFL? It was my impression that several had, including SL clubs. Is your opposition to us getting help (if we actually are) actually because we are not based in the North of England?

I'm not "in the know", I'm just a bloke with an opinion. I don't have a particular problem with the RFL assisting Crusaders but not like that.

Crusaders aren't the only SL side and they aren't the only ones who are cash light, if the RFL took away part of Crusaders Sky money to help out Bradford or Quins then I would imagine that Crusaders would have something to say about it. And rightly so, they would have budgetted on the basis that they would get that money and losing it would cause them problems.

If the RFL have the funds to loan Crusaders funds then fine IMO they should lend it to them - but it should be a loan and the RFL shouldn't have to do this every year.

Crusaders have had a bad season and ordinarily they would be relegated back to NL1 where they could cut their cloth according to their means and win more games. The new rules mean that they have to play in SL for another two seasons minimum and this presents a fairly unique problem and one that causes me some worry.

I think Crusaders can survive one bad season but if the next one is equally poor then things aren't going to be pretty. They aren't the worst side to play SL by some distance but you can't really market a club as "Not the worst side ever to play the game".

It's more the suspicion that the RFL wouldn't have helped an M62 club were they equally in the mire. Whether this is true or not is open to conjecture but you didn't get quite the same response when Doncaster had their (on-going) troubles.

Debateable



I'd agree though problem isn't getting them out of trouble this year it's the next two! They have to DOUBLE home gate to even break even, gonna happen? Highly unlikely!

Why?

J20, we need to average 4500 gate to break even. We are loitering around 3500. That is 1000 more, NOT double. Don't think a lot of Widnes educational standards

He means 4,500 full paying supporters

And to tell the truth I dont see how even that many would break you even

Not if you were intending to spend at the max salary cap

I would have thought that to break even any SL club would need at least 6/7,000 averages if they were to spend anywhere near full S/C

Wouldn't other elements come into play too, though? Like income generating opportunities, overheads, sponsorship deals, etc. I'm sure that if any British rugby league club (at any level) relied solely upon gates then most of them would go bust.

Starbug I KNOW he means full paying supporters. We are averaging around 3500 full paying supporters. There are freebies for the big games to sweeten the deal, but very few have been handed out this last few games.

We are, I understand, spending nowhere near the salary cap which may explain a few things but have / had a good sponsorship deal with Brains.

Put is this way , last night a saints fan was telling me that mr Mcmanus was having to chip in to keep them afloat on 10,000 crowds and making finals left right and centre

So if they need at least 10,000 I would guess any other club would need at least something similar

Well, it's like I said, there are other things at play too. McManus at a fans forum last season openly admitted that he has had to dip into his pocket every season so far but he laid the blame on that primarily upon the stadium we have, which we also own and therefore are solely responsible for. You don't have that headache. There have been times when bits of our stadium - a grand word for Knowsley Road, it has to be said! - have had to be closed off because they have been dangerous. We cannot have functions there because the rooms, such as they are (very few and small), are tired and old and not equipped for functions. In other words, our stadium is draining our resources massively but producing virtually nothing in terms of income. Crusaders, if on a good deal renting at Bridgend, will not have that burden and any income they generate can be fed back into the club, which will be of benefit over and above what you get through the gates.

But I do not think the situation is as bleak where your gate is concerned as you do at present. What you desperately need are wins, especially home wins. That requires restructuring of your team, which will be painful no doubt, but necessary, and being able to spend the salary cap. Due to the ridiculously short turnaround the RFL gave you and Salford, recruitment for the Crusaders last year was not the best - it couldn't be. There just wasn't the time. This year is different and so will next season be, I really believe that.

PS: The money received for the finals, at least where the Challenge Cup is concerned, I think goes direct to players. The value of the Challenge Cup is the publicity and the sponsorship such publicity can attract. Likewise getting to Grand Finals. (I'm not sure where the Grand Final money goes, but we've lost two out of the last three so it probably was a relatively small amount anyway!)

Have you been to Brewery Field , I have been in saints corporate



If Brewery field was any good at producing income why would Mr Samuels have sold the lease and is now looking at re locating to Newport

As for your success not producing income , yes CC bonus is not included in S/C income so that would go straight to the players but there is income from merchandise and tickets sales so the only part of Saints that isn't ' working ' is the stadium

Celtic on the other hand isn't ' working ' on any level at the moment

You just don't read my posts, do you? I didn't say Brewery Field was good at producing income. I said the fact that the Crusaders don't own it means they don't have the same revenue-draining headache that Saints have (because Saints do own Knowsley Road). Well, it's a headache for our chairman anyway, who has dipped into his pocket to keep us afloat because of it.


Indeed we do have merchandise sales, as will the Crusaders. However, you clearly haven't a clue what you are talking about when you diminish Knowsley Road to 'only' the stadium which isn't working. Not a fecking clue. It costs an amazing amount of money just to keep our health and safety certificate.


It's still there, so it is working on that level, and from what I've heard it is doing very well indeed on the youth development front, which is a long term commitment. So there are two levels on which the Crusaders club is working, you negative person.

Was just about to post that, also the Brewery field was sold to Bridgend FC and Bridgend Ravens as the football club have a lot of money in an account following the sale of their previous ground to ASDA which has to be spent by 2010 or reverts to the council. It would appear to have been a good bit of business for all parties involved i.e. the football club spend their money and get a realisable asset and Crusaders lose the overheads of running the stadium.

Exactly. That's got to help, at least until such time as Crusaders have secured additional funding through sponsorship, fanbase, etc, to either go it alone or share under different terms elsewhere, or whatever the club's long term future will be.

So you admit going on there looking for ammo.
Thought as much.
Thanks for the confirmation.
I see you haven't denied anything else I have posted

I meant HOME fans, can't just keep relying on away fans! Pains to say but Wire are big travellers and you only got 3k for that game!

So you need more locals through gates, if you look at Quins game then you'll see it is double!

Whereas they got about 6000 for Saints, I believe.

Every club looks to away support. It helps or hinders, whichever.

Well sort ya drifiting attendances out then! Or tell the truth perhaps?

news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 142408.stm Have they got anything right this season? Sorry far too early and Samuel is bleeding the club dry! Well done RFL you have completly ballsed up Welsh Rugby Legaue chance again!

news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 142408.stm Have they got anything right this season? Sorry far too early and Samuel is bleeding the club dry! Well done RFL you have completly ballsed up Welsh Rugby Legaue chance again!

Anything they touch goes wrong, they should never have been in this season.

Now we know why Jace van Dijk and Tony Duggan are being released. However I think you are jumping the gun here.

[i"Players from Super League side Celtic Crusaders are being investigated by the UK Border Agency over possible immigration offences."[/i

They have not been found guilty of anything yet.

How many Sports clubs bring in players on Visa's each year though and you never hear of this!

Jumping gun? Surely if Cru where fully ready visa's would of been sorted before start of year especially for Duggan, Quinn & Van Dijk etc, plus they obv messed them up somehwere to be investigated!

All I'm saying is let's wait and see before condemning anyone. Despite what you have just written, nothing has yet been proven. You're going to look pretty silly if they get the all clear.

Never said they done anything wrong exactly, but no smoke without fire!